Week 8 BTBS Picks!
Well...apparently I complained a little too much about consistency last week...definitely not a consistent week last time around...and there are some, uhh, interesting picks this time around. I'm a little scared.
Last Week: Can we just pretend last week didn't happen?
| Category | Last Week | Season |
| All Games | 25-28-1 | 194-139-4 (58.2%) |
| Big 12 | 2-4 | 30-20-2 (60.0%) |
| "LOCKS" | 1-5!! | 18-14-1 (56.1%) |
UGH. Lost a large handful of games by 0.5 or 1 point. My redemption here is simply that it was a stupid week--I won last week's FO picks with a 5-5 record.
As always...Big 12 picks here...everything after the jump.
| Date | Time | Game | Projection | Spread | ATS Verdict |
| Sat., 10/24 | 11:30am | Colorado at Kansas State | CU by 4.2 | CU +4.5 | |
| Iowa State at Nebraska | NU by 25.4 | NU -17.5 | |||
| Oklahoma State at Baylor | OSU by 6.6 | OSU -9.5 | |||
| 2:30pm | Oklahoma at Kansas | OU by 12.5 | OU -7 | OU (WIN) |
|
| 6:00pm | Texas A&M at Texas Tech | Tech by 7.7 | Tech -22.5 | ATM (WIN) |
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| 7:00pm | Texas at Missouri | UT by 0.3 | UT -13 |
The disclaimers are building here. As I've mentioned before, it does seem like NU's and MU's ratings both skewed upward a bit too much after the monsoon game, so their prowess is probably being overstated. Meanwhile, Baylor's performance with Hot Tub Griffin III is still taken into account, and Tech's early mediocre play is probably keeping them from getting too much credit for how good they've looked in the last two weeks (and how bad ATM has looked). Maybe ATM rebounds and makes it a game...I guess we'll see how much of an impact "two-week momentum" will make. At the NFL level, Aaron from Football Outsiders does take into account recent momentum, and I think that's something I will have to do at some point, but I'm not going to do it arbitrarily--we're going to find out how much of an impact it truly makes (and at what increment...2 weeks? 3? 5?) and adjust for next year.
All games after the jump.
| Date | Time | Game | Projection | Spread | ATS Verdict |
| Wed., 10/21 | 7:00pm | Tulsa at UTEP | Tulsa by 9.4 | Tulsa -7 | |
| Thurs., 10/22 | 7:00pm | Florida State at North Carolina | FSU by 2.7 | FSU +2.5 | FSU (WIN) |
| Fri., 10/23 | 7:00pm | Rutgers at Army | Army by 8.2 | Army +10 | |
| Sat., 10/24 | 11:00am | Central Michigan at Bowling Green | BGSU by 1.2 | BGSU +7.5 | |
| Connecticut at West Virginia | UConn by 1.4 | UConn +7 | UConn (WIN) |
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| Georgia Tech at Virginia | UVa by 8.5 | UVa +5.5 | |||
| Illinois at Purdue | Purdue by 11.4 | Purdue -10 | Purdue (TIE) |
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| Indiana at Northwestern | Indiana by 3.9 | Indiana +6 | Indiana (WIN) |
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| Minnesota at Ohio State | tOSU by 13.1 | tOSU -18 | |||
| South Florida at Pittsburgh | USF by 2.4 | USF +6.5 | |||
| UAB at Marshall | Marshall by 7.9 | Marshall -7 | Marshall (WIN) |
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| 11:21am | Arkansas at Ole Miss | Arky by 12.6 | Arky +6 | ||
| 11:30am | Colorado at Kansas State | CU by 4.2 | CU +4.5 | ||
| Iowa State at Nebraska | NU by 25.4 | NU -17.4 | |||
| Oklahoma State at Baylor | OSU by 6.6 | OSU -9.5 | |||
| 12:00pm | Ball State at Eastern Michigan | EMU by 4.3 | EMU +3 | EMU (WIN) |
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| Northern Ilinois at Miami-OH | NIU by 6.8 | NIU -11 | Miami-OH (TIE) |
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| 12:30pm | Maryland at Duke | Maryland by 7.8 | Maryland +5.5 | MARYLAND (WIN) |
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| 1:00pm | Buffalo at Western Michigan | WMU by 7.3 | WMU -5 | ||
| Kent State at Ohio | Ohio by 13.1 | Ohio -10.5 | |||
| Louisiana Tech at Utah State | USU by 7.8 | USU -1.5 | USU (WIN) |
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| 2:00pm | Akron at Syracuse | 'Cuse by 7.0 | 'Cuse -10 | ||
| 2:30pm | Boston College at Notre Dame | ND by 0.7 | ND -8.5 | ||
| Central Florida at Rice | UCF by 0.8 | UCF -10 | |||
| Clemson at Miami-FL | Miami by 8.2 | Miami -5 | |||
| Louisville at Cincinnati | Cincy by 16.8 | Cincy -18 | |||
| North Texas at Troy | Troy by 13.8 | Troy -17.5 | |||
| Oklahoma at Kansas | OU by 12.5 | OU -7 | OU (WIN) |
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| Oregon at Washington | Oregon by 1.9 | Oregon -9 | |||
| Penn State at Michigan | PSU by 12.4 | PSU -4.5 | PSU (WIN) |
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| Tennessee at Alabama | 'Bama by 9.6 | 'Bama -15 | Tennessee (WIN) |
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| Wake Forest at Navy | Navy by 3.8 | Navy -2.5 | Navy (WIN) |
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| W'ern Kentucky at Middle Tennessee | MTSU by 12.9 | MTSU -18 | |||
| 3:00pm | Air Force at Utah | Utah by 10.3 | Utah -9.5 | ||
| San Diego State at Colorado State | CSU by 7.0 | CSU -8 | SDSU (WIN) |
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| 3:05pm | Idaho at Nevada | Nevada by 16.2 | Nevada -15 | Nevada (WIN) |
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| 3:30pm | Washington State at California | Cal by 14.9 | Cal -35 | WAZZU (WIN) |
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| 4:00pm | Florida Atlantic at UL-Lafayette | FAU by 9.7 | FAU +3 | FAU (WIN) |
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| 5:30pm | UCLA at Arizona | UCLA by 4.3 | UCLA +8.5 | ||
| 6:00pm | Florida International at Arkansas State | ASU by 8.1 | ASU -11 | ||
| Iowa at Michigan State | Iowa by 4.6 | PK | Iowa (WIN) |
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| Temple at Toledo | Toledo by 10.0 | Toledo -2.5 | |||
| Texas A&M at Texas Tech | Tech by 7.7 | Tech -22.5 | ATM (WIN) |
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| Tulane at Southern Miss | USM by 10.4 | USM -21.5 | |||
| UL-Monroe at Kentucky | UK by 10.8 | UK -16.5 | |||
| Vanderbilt at South Carolina | SC by 19.7 | SC -12.5 | |||
| 6:30pm | Auburn at LSU | LSU by 11.4 | LSU -7.5 | LSU (WIN) |
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| Florida at Mississippi State | Florida by 30.2 | Florida -23 | |||
| SMU at Houston | Houston by 18.8 | Houston -16.5 | Houston (WIN) |
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| TCU at BYU | TCU by 4.5 | TCU -2.5 | TCU (WIN) |
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| 7:00pm | Oregon State at USC | USC by 6.3 | USC -20.5 | OSU (WIN) |
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| Texas at Missouri | Texas by 0.3 | Texas -13 | |||
| UNLV at New Mexico | UNLV by 1.1 | UNLV -1 | UNLV (WIN) |
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| 9:15pm | Arizona State at Stanford | Stanford by 4.7 | Stanford -6.5 | ||
| 9:15pm | Fresno State at New Mexico State | FSU by 17.7 | FSU -23.5 | ||
| 10:05pm | Boise State at Hawaii | Boise by 16.0 | Boise -25 |
- Once again, no conference is crazier than the Pac-10, where the bottom half just continues to shuffle around and make no sense. UCLA-Arizona is a complete mystery, as is Cal. Thanks to gigantic eggs laid against Oregon and USC, Cal's projections aren't that hot...but they've looked really, really good against everybody else. I certainly wouldn't be surprised if they beat Wazzu by about 85, but again, the projections take the whole season into account. Numbers don't deal well with schizophrenia.
- The numbers have hitched their wagon to the Virginia turnaround, and so far they've been spot-on. Still, though...beating Georgia Tech? Huh.
- Rutgers disclaimer: why are they projected to lose to Army by 8? Because they've played two FCS teams (not just FCS teams, god-awful ones), and it's completely wrecked their SOS. They're not good, but they're probably not that bad. Buyer beware on that one.
Gotta say...the iffy week last week shook me up, and I'm wary about quite a few of these picks. Then again, if not for the closest of close misses, I'd have been right at the 60% I'm used to, so who knows...do beware of the disclaimers I missed above, and just for your own sanity, if you're betting, avoid the Pac-10 at all costs.
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You could always have a decaying weight
That’s what they do in a lot of marketing modellling – for each observation you take the number of weeks it was ago, and combine it with some weight parameter to use as a reciprocal exponent (or something like that, I’d have to look it up, slightly hazy). You can jigger the weight to make a steeper or shallower gradients that smoothly weights more recent info more strongly, while discounting info slightly more as it gets older.
This could even solve your woes of what to do with preseason info. you just start its’ “weeks ago” at a relatively high number.
As the saying goes, “nothing is impossible for the man who doesn’t have to do it himself.” :)
Anyway, if you care about that you can email me and I’ll look up how to do it. It’s pretty simple as I recall.
and the Mustache of Truculence (formerly Canada4Mizzou)
that would be pretty cool if that is all it would take to factor in some 'momentum'
whatever ‘momentum’ is…
This has brought up a question.
In considering preseason info; could you account for the end of the previous year, players lost, coaching changes, in any sort of logical numerical way in an effort to really get the teams settled into their respective projections earlier? Second part; would this help along with tweeks to the ‘momentum’ of teams and aid in your closer spreads more accurately?
(though overall these are still correct at an amazing rate for the first set of data coming in)
Sponsor of the Will Ebner Physical Therapy Center for Will Ebners' Torn Lateral Meniscus Get Better Quick Fund. Or the SWEPTCWETLMGBQF for short.
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Oct 21, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Not even momentum
But just improvement. In college sports, the amount a team can improve in a given week can be pretty big.. With 18-22 year olds, these aren’t machines, and it’s amazing how the little things that aren’t measureable can lead to a team’s improvement.
Maybe the data that occurs the last 2 weeks is really what is indicitive on how a team will do, and the previous 5 or 6 weeks do not matter as much.
In general, there are going to be issues with using history to project the future… In the work world we deal with this all the time with financial projections.
College sports are hard to predict in general: if someone had a fool-proof system, they’d be making millions and shutting up about sharing the details.
Still, it’s fun to read and compare after the fact. I’m not betting, so I have nothing to lose.
by Mark Kieffer on Oct 21, 2009 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Following that thought to its logical conclusion
you could also have a code to put in when something freakish happens (like a monsoon) to underweight that week relevant to the others. Doing that would allow you to essentially tell the model “This one isn’t so diagnostic of future behavior, it was under conditions that aren’t likely t be repeated.”
and the Mustache of Truculence (formerly Canada4Mizzou)
it's definitely a thought...
…they’ve cataloged weather for the NFL games at FO, but obviously that is a HUGE project for the college level…thanks to sites like www.wunderground.com, going back and checking the weather for a given game is actually possible, but holy crap would that be time-consuming. I’m definitely all for a “weather/strange circumstances” exception in the formulas, though.
And…
[I]f someone had a fool-proof system, they’d be making millions and shutting up about sharing the details.
As Tommy said to Warden Norton in Shawkshank Redemption, just give me that chance…
Rock M Nation
Thrust nunchuk upward!
Yeah, sounds like maybe more trouble than it would be worth
I mean, when it rains, it does rain for both teams, right?
________________________________
Eric Berry is better at football than you.
yeah, but for both teams...
…if, for instance, with the Nebraska-Missouri game, neither team can throw or, really, run, then it’s going to negatively impact both teams’ offensive numbers and positively impact both teams’ defensive numbers, then it really will impact future projections in a way that it shouldn’t. Might just be something we have to live with, but in my “perfect world” scenario, weather is cataloged…
Rock M Nation
Thrust nunchuk upward!
I see where you are coming from now
________________________________
Eric Berry is better at football than you.
Ya, I don't think you'd want to do that one comprehensively
but it’s rare that conditions are so completely F’d up, that everything goes berserk…. I mean, that’s probably only one game every couple of weeks (so far this season you’d have what, MU/NU, and VT/Miami, right?). If it’s only for clearly exceptional circumstances you could pretty much do it manually in 30 seconds.
and the Mustache of Truculence (formerly Canada4Mizzou)
I believe this is what Ken Pomeroy does with his college basketball ratings
The amount of time that has passed since a given past result is inversely proportional to that past results influence on a current projection.
“decaying weight” was probably self-explanatory enough.
________________________________
Eric Berry is better at football than you.
FWIW, though...
…I think kenpom “decaying weight” approach is far too drastic. By the end of the season, it is almost as if — for the purposes of his projections — that the games at the beginning of the season didn’t happen.
Such a steep curve of decay might make sense in college basketball, but it doesn’t in college football. Though maybe a less aggressive (smaller sloped) decaying weight approach might have the added benefit of factoring in “momentum”.
Just thinking on paper.
________________________________
Eric Berry is better at football than you.
You can modify the weight you put on the decay
Yeah, looking at old notes now… Ah, the good ole Nerlove-Arrow model.
You can do non-linear decays by multiplying values by
e^(-wt)
where
e=euler’s constant
w=your decay weight
t=time (number of weeks ago)
As t approaches infinity, the exponent (1/wt) approaches zero, wiping out the influence of the term… to see what it looks like, go here and plug in “e^-(.25x)” (where .25 is the weight, and “x” fills in for “t”). You can mess with the number weight to change how steep the curve is. Plug in .5 and it gets much steeper, plug in .1 it gets really shallow. You’d have to mess with the exponent to see what works best. My guess is that for football it’d be a pretty small number.
The only major drawback I can think of to doing this (besides the enormous pain in the arse of programming it all) is that if you wanted to produce results with a meaningful scale (where eqpoints equal actual real points), you’d presumably have to make sure that all the weights added up to 1.00. And THAT could be some finagling (I guess you could calculate weights as above, then do some type of linear transformation to force them to add to one while remaining proportionate to each other, but… Yeacchh).
/nerd pr0n
and the Mustache of Truculence (formerly Canada4Mizzou)
by Wan Ihite on Oct 21, 2009 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I am quite familiar with "e" and yet never knew it had a name (euler's constant).
________________________________
Eric Berry is better at football than you.
this ain't stats
it’s modeling. Stats is about making inferences and detecting signals, modeling is bigger than that – these guys are nuts. They make big mathematical simulations of markets where you can tweak parameters and try to figure out what is happening.
Like the decaying weight thing I pulled there is from a model of advertising which assumes that as you advertise you build up a well of “goodwill,” but that this goodwill leaks away over time, rapidly at first, and then at a slowing rate. So then you can try to use it to space out your advertising to maintain an optimally high level of goodwill.
Your predictions here are essentially a model too, just a predictive one.
If you were in flat out academics mode with it, you would be spending long days trying out a bunch of different decay weights to get different predictions, and comparing those outputs to actual game data to see if there is an optimal number… Yeah, this is a full time job for some very smart people.
and the Mustache of Truculence (formerly Canada4Mizzou)
Football Nerds Unite!!!!!!!!!
sweet sweet stats
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by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Oct 22, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Meta-analysis of the BTBS football analysis
So last night I decided to embark on some analysis of the BTBS predictions. My plan initially was compare the predicted BTBS scoring differentials with the actual results for each week, and then see if the BTBS predictions are improving. I ran the data, for week 7, realized how tedious and time-consuming the task was, and didn’t get any farther than that one week.
What I realized along the way, though, was that my approach was probably not the best. For this data to be meaningful I would have also had to run the numbers on the differential between the vegas spreads and the actual results for each week, and then see how much BTBS is a better predictor than Vegas and whether Vegas is catching up or BTBS is pulling away. But, again, then tells me very little….which is illustrated by the following example. Assume Vegas has set this line: Mizzou is -8 against Gotham Univ. BTBS predicts that Mizzou will win by 12 against Gotham. Thus, BTBS picks Gotham. If Mizzou were to beat Gotham 45-12, BTBS would have been right, but its prediction would have been way off base. If Mizzou were to beat Gotham 39-32, BTBS would have been wrong…..but yet the BTBS prediction would have been nearly spot on.
So, I am scrapping that idea in favor a better one. Namely, ascertaining the correlation between BTBS and Vegas prediction discrepancy (e.g., if Vegas had Mizzou 9 against Gotham, BTBS would tell us to bet on Gotham…but it seems like a very faint-hearted suggestion. On the other hand, if Vegas has Mizzou +1 against Gotham, this is a 9 point differential - which is significant.).
Bill is already employing this concept by putting predictions that vary from the vegas lines by (is it 13 points) into the “LOCK” category. But what I would like to do is take this a step further from the current binary approach, and see if/how the chances of prevailing against a given line increase with an increased discrepancy.
Problem is: I have no idea how to do it. I messed around with excel last night for a while, but couldn’t figure out what functions might do this. Basically, we would just have two columns. One column with the discrepancy. Another columing with a binary representation of a win or a loss.
Is this actually really easy to do? The end graph that I would like excel to spit out would be something the winning percentage as a function of the number discrepancy. Any tips?
________________________________
Eric Berry is better at football than you.
reposting....I have no idea how the strikethroughs got in the above one
So last night I decided to embark on some analysis of the BTBS predictions. My plan initially was compare the predicted BTBS scoring differentials with the actual results for each week, and then see if the BTBS predictions are improving. I ran the data, for week 7, realized how tedious and time-consuming the task was, and didn’t get any farther than that one week.
What I realized along the way, though, was that my approach was probably not the best. For this data to be meaningful I would have also had to run the numbers on the differential between the vegas spreads and the actual results for each week, and then see how much BTBS is a better predictor than Vegas and whether Vegas is catching up or BTBS is pulling away. But, again, then tells me very little….which is illustrated by the following example. Assume Vegas has set this line: Mizzou is -8 against Gotham Univ. BTBS predicts that Mizzou will win by 12 against Gotham. Thus, BTBS picks Gotham. If Mizzou were to beat Gotham 45-12, BTBS would have been right, but its prediction would have been way off base. If Mizzou were to beat Gotham 39-32, BTBS would have been wrong…..but yet the BTBS prediction would have been nearly spot on.
So, I am scrapping that idea in favor a better one. Namely, ascertaining the correlation between BTBS and Vegas prediction discrepancy (e.g., if Vegas had Mizzou 9 against Gotham, BTBS would tell us to bet on Gotham…but it seems like a very faint-hearted suggestion. On the other hand, if Vegas has Mizzou +1 against Gotham, this is a 9 point differential, which is significant.).
Bill is already employing this concept by putting predictions that vary from the vegas lines by (is it 13 points) into the "LOCK" category. But what I would like to do is take this a step further from the current binary approach, and see if/how the chances of prevailing against a given line increase with an increased discrepancy.
Problem is: I have no idea how to do it. I messed around with excel last night for a while, but couldn’t figure out what functions might do this. Basically, we would just have two columns. One column with the discrepancy. Another columing with a binary representation of a win or a loss.
Is this actually really easy to do? The end graph that I would like excel to spit out would be something the winning percentage as a function of the number discrepancy. Any tips?
________________________________
Eric Berry is better at football than you.
You'd need to do a logistic regression
because your DV (right/wrong prediction) is binary, but your IV (differential spread) is continuous. I don’t know if you can do that in excel, but I doubt it. You’d probably have to use SPSS or SAS or stata or a real stats package like that.
and the Mustache of Truculence (formerly Canada4Mizzou)
yeah
The binary/continuous thing is the problem. I will toy with excel some more at a later date, but it may just be an impossibility.
________________________________
Eric Berry is better at football than you.
Not impossible
you just need higher powered stats than simple pearson’s product moment correlations.
and the Mustache of Truculence (formerly Canada4Mizzou)

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