After watching Todd Reesing, the offensive line, the wide receivers, the play-callers, Mark Mangino and anyone else who had a hand in Saturday’s third straight and probably most debilitating loss of the season, a question that has been burning inside me can smolder no more.
Is it time to put an end to the Mark Mangino era?
Wow. Really? Three straight losses and suddenly it’s time to fire the man who made KU a relevant team in the Big 12, won a BCS Bowl and put KU in contention for a Big 12 North title when prior to his arrival, KU football couldn’t sniff the top-tier teams in the North? Fire the guy?
Yes. And to say that hurts, but the crux of whether or not you fire Mangino comes down to one question and that’s a question that only Lew Perkins can answer – Do you want to be a big time football school, Yes or No.
-- From a column by Fred Davis at Coaches Aid, as posted by Rock Chalk Talk, where the debate now rages.
about 2 years ago
RPT
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I fully support this, because of how foolish it would be for them. KU would be repeating the mistakes of firing MU football coaches at the first sign of trouble. Thankfully MU has learned and given Gary Pinkel the time to build. KU would be wise to do the same, but I am in favor of anything that slows their football improvement!
Do you really want KU football to suck?
I hate KU as much as the next sane person, but it’s so much more entertaining to wipe the floor with them when they’re good and have something on the line. ’07 was so sweet.
I want them to suck!
I liked ‘07 and I was at Arrowhead when we were kicked in the gut in ’08.
I’d like to never lose to KU ever again and the rivalry would be in great terms with me.
Could kU really find a bette coach than Mangino?
I honestly find it hard to believe they could lure in a coach with a better chance at turning kU into a football power than Mangino. Just because you have loads of money doesn’t mean you can lure top coaches from power programs away (see: Alabama & Georgia basketball last year).
Chicago White Sox Examiner — I wish I could cuss right now.
could they find a better coach than mangino? yes
Gary Pinkel :-)
"The field mouse is fast but the owl sees at night"- Ricky Bobby's belligerent Granddaddy
Sure they could
they’re going to dig up Vince Lombardi and Tom Landry and make a hybrid out of their DNA
Vince Landry...???
screw him, they can have him…when Notre Dame cans Cheeseburger Charlie he’s a lock a Kansas assistant spot. If there is one thing better than the Mangino fat man jokes…it’s Charlie fat jokes.
Plus in this economy I’d say it a pretty attractive stimulus package for the local eateries.
Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.
I read this and the article as well as all the comments on RCT and thought it was quite humorous
Oh and ku good luck buying out manginas contract and trying to get Tommy Tuberville to come to lawrence
To chime in from the KU side...
I’d say 90% realize this would be foolish at this point and as “best of the west” mentions buyouts are a bit of an issue with the size of college coaching contracts these days.
I posted a link in the comments section as a reminder of how incredibly far the climb is for Kansas. 2002 we were considered one of the 10 worst programs in the country by ESPN.
This year has been frustrating because of the expectations paraded out there by our athletic department and team but unless there is some sort of serious behind the scenes issue it isn’t time to jump ship. Appreciate your concern though : )
Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.
Yeah, the "History Awaits" posters
like “The Sequel” for Missouri last year, were just overweening hubris.
by jschooltiger on Nov 16, 2009 3:24 PM CST up reply actions
I think...
what they really meant was that the marketing campaign would go down in history as one of the most ill timed ever.
I’m kind of thinking those posters, shirts, or whatever else they put that slogan on will be novelty items one day. Kind of like when they print up Super Bowl champion T-Shirts for both teams and then the ones for the loser get sent to Guatemala.
I’m thinking next spring when I go to South America I might see an 8 year old youngster wearing his “History Awaits” T-Shirt…I’ll say to the kid…“It’s still waiting”
Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.
It kind of reminds me of the signs at Arrowhead in '07
KU Football: A Tradition Since September
by jschooltiger on Nov 16, 2009 3:32 PM CST up reply actions
What would the school,fans,alumni and so on do IF....
Bill Self had a simililarly crappy season with all the talent on that team,and have been touted as the #1 team in the country. Just asking
by Bestofthewest on Nov 16, 2009 3:33 PM CST up reply actions
eh...nothing...
I’m sure just like anywhere you’d get some irrational folks who would say he’s lost it, time to move on, let’s go hire back Larry Brown…things of that nature. Again though most wouldn’t even dream of it.
Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.
But...
With Self’s team, is there an expectation of heavy turnover next spring? If not, then I think you’re correct, and only Aldrich and Collins are the worst. But if you do lose six-seven players to the draft (or Europe, which may be better), does panic approach?
Formerly known as Mizzou Grad
Self is such a good recruiter, though
I’d still expect them to at least make the tournament and probably reach the Sweet 16 if Aldrich, Collins, and a few others leave.
Chicago White Sox Examiner — I wish I could cuss right now.
by UribeAuction on Nov 16, 2009 3:51 PM CST up reply actions
nope...
not a chance…primarily based on what he was able to do last season. We certainly weren’t an overwhelmingly great team last year but Self was able to pull together 2 players with any experience whatsoever from a year earlier, combine them with a bunch of freshman, two kids from Kansas and make them a team that won the regular season conference championship and a team that had a legit final four chance.
That combined with Uribe’s comment that he has been a solid recruiter means not a chance panic approaches. Now if we pulled a Florida and disappeared from the tournament for several years after a title run, then panic might start to set in, but Self would be given PLENTY of opportunities to right the ship.
Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.
Yeah, you guys are a lock each year
to get a couple of McDonald’s All-Americans with every class. I think Self would be given the benefit of the doubt.
by jschooltiger on Nov 16, 2009 3:59 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think that is entirely true...
I’d say it’s a safe bet we’re a lock to be in the running for a McD’s AA but KU is rarely a team that has 2-3 guys in that game at once. Here and there yes but not always.
Self has done a good job of blending talent consistently and I think thats a big strength of his. Don’t get me wrong we aren’t playing with a bunch of no names but he does a lot with guys that aren’t McD’s AA’s as well.
I will say though he consistently gets the TOP talent to visit KU. Just wish we’d find a way to land more. This years late night had a ridiculous amount of talent sitting in the stands.
Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.
Kansas has that historical recruiting pull
Florida is a lot like Illinois—a very good basketball school, but unable to consistently pull in top recruits. KU is on the same level as Duke, UNC, UCLA, and Kentucky (among others) that have history on its side when it comes to recruiting.
Chicago White Sox Examiner — I wish I could cuss right now.
by UribeAuction on Nov 16, 2009 4:07 PM CST up reply actions
I was just thinking the same thing
makes the recruiting a hell of a lot easier when you have guys coming to you.
But i think given another 2-3 good years, bring in some top recruits mizzou will be back where we want to be
by Bestofthewest on Nov 16, 2009 4:14 PM CST up reply actions
Bradley Beal, plz.
Chicago White Sox Examiner — I wish I could cuss right now.
by UribeAuction on Nov 16, 2009 4:19 PM CST up reply actions
plz no...
I think I’d rather see him in Crimson and Blue…although I’m beginning to think there is a good shot he might end up in Columbia. We’ll see I guess.
Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.
By the way
was there any chance Barnes ended up in Lawrence, or was it really only between UNC and Duke?
Chicago White Sox Examiner — I wish I could cuss right now.
by UribeAuction on Nov 16, 2009 4:21 PM CST up reply actions
actually...
It seems it might have actually been down to UNC and ISU even. If it wasn’t ISU it was probably Kansas. Duke was rumored out a while back.
Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.
Interesting.
I thought he just had ISU on his list as a courtesy to his hometown team.
Chicago White Sox Examiner — I wish I could cuss right now.
by UribeAuction on Nov 16, 2009 5:04 PM CST up reply actions
not to mention the talent pool...
seems to get deeper every year. They can’t all be 5* kids, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t some damn good 4 and 3* players out there. A lot can happen between the ages of 17 to 23 especially if a kid is properly motivated and coached…two things Anderson does well.
Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.
I wonder if those in Africa actually think the Bears won Super Bowl XLI.
Chicago White Sox Examiner — I wish I could cuss right now.
by UribeAuction on Nov 16, 2009 3:37 PM CST up reply actions
Bad Article
The writer of this article is delusional if he thinks that the KU receivers are the top tandem in the country. Or that the coaches he mentioned would consider coming to KU.
The CU job will most likely be available after this season which is a much better gig than the KU job. Why would a big time established coach want to go to a program that just fired a good coach and is a basketball school? KU needs to stick with who brought them.
I think I might debate that...
right now CU isn’t putting the money or support behind the program that Kansas is right now. Also the perception among a lot of the local kids out here isn’t necessarily very positive regarding the program and how it is supported by the students and community.
CU has a lot going for it in terms of past success no doubt, but currently I’m not sure there is a whole lot of difference in the two positions.
As far as the article being bad…I don’t disagree with you on that point, especially considering it was written 2 weeks ago. At that point we were really only one loss more than we expected to be after dropping the game in Boulder.
Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.
But isnt CU still paying for their last coach before hawkins, his name escapes me
by Bestofthewest on Nov 16, 2009 4:17 PM CST up reply actions
Gary Barnett...
hell they might be paying Neuheisel…although I think he left CU on his own if I’m not mistaken.
Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.
Ah, yes. Gary Barnett.
The former future coach of the Missouri Tigers, according to the “FIRE PINKEL” crowd.
ah...
almost forgot about that…Barnett’s name popped up on the MU radar briefly but since then he can’t get a sniff at a job for some reason. They interviewed former Buff/Olympian Jeremy Bloom out here on the radio last week and he said Barnett wants to coach but he can’t get a call back.
Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.
Shuddering
at seeing those words on the screen.
Ye gads. I had forgotten about that movement.
"Huey: [narrating] I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won. I admit that I'm often... vexed at the behavior of my people. Yeah... 'vexed' is a good word." ~ The Boondocks
Yeah see and that would be the same situation kansas would be in if they fierd mangino
And i really doubt bill self would pull a bill snyder, and give back some of his money to help the school get a big name coach.
by Bestofthewest on Nov 16, 2009 4:22 PM CST up reply actions
it's the situation for almost any school now...
Colorado as you said is paying Barnett, but the sad thing is they’d have to pay Hawkins more if they wanted to buy him out. Barnett won several North titles, Hawkins…zero. College coaching salaries have skyrocketed to the point that in the current economy it’s tough to justify making a move when you have to buy one guy out just to back up another brinks truck for the next guy who likely isn’t even be a proven commodity.
Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.
It comes down to recruiting and perception
There isn’t a lot of local talent that dreams of playing for KU. I mean a local football player doesn’t think of KU as being a good place to play. KSU is the Kansas school known for football. CU has a bigger tradition and is hands down the school of Colorado.
Not sure I completely agree with you...
K-State might be the football school of Kansas, but I’m not so certain Colorado has a football school at the moment. I see what you are saying, but there are some issues out here in Colorado.
Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.
no. k-state has been to 1 BigXII championship and a fiesta bowl.
that’s it. I would call it a tie in kansas. And in colorado, didn’t Colorado state beat them this year?
"The field mouse is fast but the owl sees at night"- Ricky Bobby's belligerent Granddaddy
CU is in a beautiful part of the world
but their facilities stink (their indoor practice field is a freaking semipermanent tent) and they’re pretty well stuck playing really tough non-con games to get fans in the stands. They’ve ridden the 1990 title about as far as they can.
by jschooltiger on Nov 16, 2009 4:53 PM CST up reply actions
"Mangino won a BCS Bowl that Perkins arranged"
Finallly, a jayhawker that admits it. Please record that as evidence. Just yesterday, some KU fan commentor on ESPN’s Big 12 blog had the audacity to say the Orange Bowl chose KU because they travel better than MU, which is, of course, ridiculous
I never understood that whole "travels better" argument, its senseless and pretty insulting to mizzou
by Bestofthewest on Nov 16, 2009 4:37 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know why Kansas was picked over MU or how MU travels...
but Kansas has traveled well for both the Orange and Insight Bowls.
That said, I agree it’s a pretty stupid argument because I’m not sure prior to 2007 how the BCS would have had any indication of that being the case.
I’m also sure MU travels just fine and attendance would not have been a concern either way.
Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.
I think either team would have had trouble with Miami
I know I wouldn’t have been able to afford it, compared with Dallas
by jschooltiger on Nov 16, 2009 4:59 PM CST up reply actions
honestly I'd rather go to san antonio than miami.
in terms of entertainment. but I don’t like miami sooooooooo
"The field mouse is fast but the owl sees at night"- Ricky Bobby's belligerent Granddaddy
"Travels well"
is just economics. Is there a fan base that is local to the game, or willing to be mobile enough to get there, who will put bums in seats. Sometimes we forget, but for all the mythology, the obsessiveness, the blood and guts and statistics, from an entertainment point of view, sports is just show biz. Bums in seats, eyeballs in front of ads, merchandising, merchandising, merchandising (and having the schwartz be strong with you).
All together now: There’s noooo business like spooooorts business, like noooo business I knoooooow.
and the Mustache of Truculence (formerly Canada4Mizzou)
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