Rock M Roundtable


1 - Since it's the topic of the day...when all is said and done, how annoyed/outraged should Mizzou be for slipping to the Texas Bowl behind two 6-6 teams, including one they defeated and outdrew by almost 20K/game at home?  Give me your pick on a scale of 1-10...

2 - Mizzou game and, I guess, national title game aside, which bowl game interests you the most?  (
Here's a list)

3 - The Mizzou hoops team is 5-2 and has this remaining non-conference schedule:

@Oral Roberts
Fairleigh Dickinson
UA-Pine Bluff
vs Illinois
Austin Peay
UMKC
Georgia
Savannah State

What is their record when conference play starts?

4 - Picks!

Mizzou at Oral Roberts (Wednesday)
Colorado at Colorado State (Thursday)
Iowa at Iowa State (Friday)
Kansas State at UNLV (Saturday)
Oklahoma at Utah (Saturday)
Uhh, La Salle at Kansas (Saturday)

The Beef: 1 - When all is said and done, my outrage will end up around 4.  My outrage is pointed at the conference in general.  I prefer to hear Mike Alden did everything he could within the rules for us.  Call it karma, but I have to believe it will come back around at some point.  At any rate, ESPN is a plus.  Early start time is a plus on NYE.  Playing in TX is a plus.  Playing Navy I believe is a plus simply because of the national attention they do grab.  All those work towards diffusing my outrage.  And, I donated tickets, so I have done what I can.

2 - SMU vs. Nevada should be a track meet.  I am excited to see what sort of crowd Idaho gets over to Boise for their game.  Penn State vs. LSU intrigues me.  I will keep an eye on Wyoming (and congrats/well done to DC).  I think Oregon State vs. BYU is an early gem.  OU vs. Stanford is interesting to me.

3 - @Oral Roberts - win
Fairleigh Dickinson - win
UA-Pine Bluff - win
vs Illinois - loss
Austin Peay - win
UMKC - win
Georgia - win
Savannah State - win

I guess I am going with 12-3.  Not terrible.  I would love to get that Illinois game to trade out the loss to Richmond, but I just don’t see it.  Good effort by the Fighting {REDACTED BY NCAA} last night over Vandy.

4 - Mizzou at Oral Roberts (Wednesday) - win

Colorado at Colorado State (Thursday) – um…these are all basketball games?

Iowa at Iowa State (Friday) – oh man…I don’t really know anything about basketball at this point

Kansas State at UNLV (Saturday) – um…I guess anyone from Manhattan who attends this game in person?

Oklahoma at Utah (Saturday) – The color crimson

La Salle at Kansas (Saturday) – La Salle…for seeing how good they have it in Philly over L’ville.

Bill C.: Lookie! I'm answering my own questions!

1 - I come in at a 6.  Would be 7-8 if it didn't work out so well for us, but working out well was an accident.  As I said in a comments thread the other night, just because it worked out alright doesn't mean we didn't get screwed -- if the #8 bowl in the Big 12 lineup were the Anchorage Moose Bowl, we'd be headed to Alaska.  The Big 12 sold its teams out (well, certain ones) for extra bowl payout, and this is what happens.  I agree that I like Alden working within the rules, i.e. not promising attendance of a certain amount (since it is both inaccurate and illegal...though it doesn't seem to stop other teams from doing so), and it's up to the conference to stick up for its teams, particularly ones that get a lower bowl than they deserve every year for three straight seasons despite at least average bowl attendance.

2 - Yeah, Nevada-SMU should be EXACTLY what I like to see from a Hawaii Bowl...points, points, and points.  Otherwise, Boise-TCU interests me even though it royally sucks that they have to play each other instead of both getting chances to make statements against BCS conference teams.  Florida-Cincy DID interest me until it started looking like both Florida's DC and Cincy's head coach would be off at other jobs before kickoff.  I think it kind of sucks that Florida State gets a January 1 bowl at 6-6, but if there's ever an exception to be made, it's the fact that it's Bowden's last game, and I'll watch.  ATM-Georgia could be another Points Points Points game...unless Bad ATM shows up, anyway.

3 - Yup, I see us romping through everybody but Illinois.  Gotta say, I'm perfectly content with giving UI the basketball game as long as they don't even think about pulling some strange shocker in football next year.  One football game > one basketball game.  So yeah, guess that means 12-3.  Go 9-7 in a strong Big 12, and that's potentially a decent NCAA seed (at least in the 6-7 range...unless I'm overestimating the Big 12).

4 - Yes, these are all basketball games.

MU, CSU, ISU, UNLV (close), OU (Utah sucks), and La Salle.  Okay, KU.

Michael Atchison: 1 - I won’t tell you how outraged they should be, but I personally can’t work up any outrage at all.  I suppose people can be miffed on principle, but there’s no surer way to look small-time than to raise a furor over being left out of the Insight Bowl.  You know, the one that until recently had a .com in its name?  People say "but we’re being sent to a less prestigious bowl!"  No we’re not.  We’re being sent to an equally prestigious bowl – both of these games have exactly zero prestige.  The only way that 99% of the population will know that we got passed over is if we stand on chairs and say "We got passed over!"  The only people who notice that the Insight Bowl exists are the ones who play in it.  And I think the TV angle is legit.  ESPN vs. NFL Network?  Seriously?  And the location works out perfectly, too.  Spoon and Alexander go home to play their final game.  You know there will be stories in the Houston Chronicle about how two lightly recruited local kids went to Missouri and became All-Americans.  You know that every high school coach in a 50-mile radius is going to be invited.  There are actual benefits to being in Houston.

2 - I can’t imagine I’ll watch more than five of these games, but I’m definitely watching the Fiesta Bowl.  I’ve heard folks complain that Boise and TCU aren’t getting a shot at the big boys, but does anyone really want to see them play Georgia Tech or Iowa?  I sure don’t.  And the dollar-driven geography drove this one – Cincinnati and Florida meet in the southeast, Boise and TCU meet in the west.  Should be fun to see two outsiders own the national stage for a night.  The other game that has some appeal is Stanford-Oklahoma.  If the real OU defense shows, how many yards does Gerhart rack up?

3 - How about 12-3?  I have a bit of a mental hurdle on one of these games.  Can you guess which one?  Still, I say we break the streak this year.  Who’s with me?

4 - Mizzou at Oral Roberts (Wednesday)  Tigers by 12.
Colorado at Colorado State (Thursday)  Buffs by 6.
Iowa at Iowa State (Friday)  Clones by 14 (Iowa is bad, really bad)
Kansas State at UNLV (Saturday)  UNLV by 3.
Oklahoma at Utah (Saturday)  That’s a pick-em.  OU by 1
La Salle at Kansas (Saturday)  "Gee our old La Salle ran great, those were the days!"  Um, Kansas . . . huge.

Bill C.:  "I’ve heard folks complain that Boise and TCU aren’t getting a shot at the big boys, but does anyone really want to see them play Georgia Tech or Iowa?"

YES!!!

The Beef: Count me in as no…I’d rather see the good teams play one another…TCU and Boise are the good teams…Ga Tech and Iowa…not as much

Michael Atchison: I don’t want to see Georgia Tech and Iowa play anyone, but I’m far less the college football junkie than most in this crowd are.  I don’t see how playing the lower-ranked teams is a bonus for TCU and Boise.  They play each other, somebody’s coming out undefeated, somebody’s coming out wit a loss.  At least there’s something on the line.  If the line is reasoning is that they’re better than the crap teams from the BCS who sneak in, why would you want to see them play the crap teams from the BCS who sneak in?

As far as hoops goes, I know the league is good, but no way does 9-7 yield a 6 or 7 seed, especially if there’s no marquee win on the non-con schedule.  9-7 might not even get in the field, and if it does, it’s probably as an 11 seed.

Bill C.: This Missouri team would disagree with that assessment.

Michael Atchison: That team had a quality non-con road win (at Iowa), and then got a big seeding bump by coming within one bucket of winning the Big 12 Tournament, beating #23 Oklahoma State and #4 Kansas along the way.  If the current Tigers go 9-7, lose to Texas by one in the title game, and beat A&M and Kansas in the quarters and semis, they’ll get a 6 or 7 seed.

The Beef: I see wins over Memphis (non con), kU and OU that season, in addition to USC and Iowa who did not make the tourney

Non con is not quite wrapped up…but…yeah

Bill C.: Yeah, USC and Iowa were average at best (more respectable, but probably really no better than Old Dominion/Georgia...maybe), and Memphis...well, I thought Memphis was terrible that season until I looked it up.  Still...a 9-7 conference record suggests at LEAST a couple of wins over teams with good RPIs...since the conference might have quite a few of them this year...

(And yes, I might be wrong on this one, but I'm digging in and fighting, Jay-C style...)

The Beef: Well swing for the fences then…if you TRULY fight Jay-C style…you’ll end up arguing my point for me around 9:45 a.m.

Bill C.: I can't force it, though...it has to happen organically...

Michael Atchison: Aren’t you going to feel foolish when they win their tenth game and you look back at the day you wasted all this time arguing about nine?

Don’t answer that.

Sweep Colorado and Nebraska, split with Iowa State and K-State, beat Okie State and A&M at home and Baylor on the road, and that’s nine.  I think they can win ten, maybe eleven.

And was anyone else in the building on Saturday?  Sweet googly-moogly.  L-Bo’s pass to Safford in the second half was sweet.  When the bigs pass well, everything works better.

The Beef: I was not in the house…am hoping to make it down for a weekend game in the coming weekends…I think by the time that pass had been made, I may have been back to football

Doug: 1 - I think the fact the game is at 2:30 (central) on a New Year's Eve would be the most aggravating thing. When KU played in the Texas Bowl a few years back, I'm fairly certain it didn't start until later in the evening. Sure, lots of people will have the 31st off, but since it's not a traditional holiday for most employers, I don't think you should be allowed to start a bowl game before, say, 7pm eastern on the 31st.

2 - I'll tell you what game I'm not looking forward to: the Rose Bowl. That game has simply become an exercise in terrible football for too long.

3 - I think Oral Roberts is a bit of a trap game since it is on the road, and of course the Illinois game because that's just how it goes for Missouri. I think everything is completely winnable... okay, maybe not UMKC. I think 12 and 3 for sure, 11 and 4 is an outside possibility.

4 - Missouri: could be close
Colorado - won't be close
ISU - Brackins is a difference maker (and I don't know who plays for Iowa)
UNLV - it's a true road game and those can tricky
Utah - Oklahoma is the current front-runner for most disappointing Big 12 team
Kansas - But, it's a two-fer pick, over Radford on Wednesday and La Salle on Saturday. You're welcome.

5 - What no pointless pop culture question?

ZouDave: It took me over an hour to get to work today.  For the record, it's 15 miles from my house to work.  Over an hour.  Imagine what will happen when winter actually gets here.
 
1 - Annoyed is the more proper term for me.  It's not an outrage to be skipped over by the Insight Bowl.  The truth of the matter (as I'm sure has been discussed already) is that we're facing a better opponent now and we'll be seen by a much larger audience.  In some ways, we were done a favor.  But it's annoying that Mizzou now has what I feel is an unearned reputation of bad support.  And I don't know how it can be fixed, because it doesn't seem like facts are really being taken into account here.  So as far as annoyances go, this is a 7.  Outage, it's like a 2.
 
2 - Well I definitely want to see TCU vs Boise State, but would much rather have seen TCU vs GA Tech and Boise State vs Florida (for example) rather than seeing the 2 teams that we wonder how good they are face each other.  I didn't get a chance to see Wyoming at all this year so I wouldn't mind seeing DC's first bowl game against Fresno State.
 
3 - 12-3.  We're going to lose to Illinois, because we're Mizzou and that's what we do.
 
4 - I'll take all the B12 teams besides Iowa State.
 

And now to try to read all of the other responses and give a bunch of ill-timed comments on them!

ghtd36: It's 26 degrees in Dallas, Texas today. 26 degrees. And I think we know who to blame:


DELAHOOKE!!! RAWWWWR!!!

1 - I'm calming down, but I'm still upset with the powers that be. Why isn't the Big XII commissioner sticking up for his teams? Why isn't Mike Alden (whom I've really gained a lot of respect for over the past four years or so) making this a bigger deal? It all sucks. It's the suckiest bunch of suck that ever sucked. I'm still running at an 8.

2 - Mizzou game and, I guess, national title game aside, which bowl game interests you the most?  (Here's a list: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/bowls09/news/story?id=4111912)

Not a whole lot of "great" games out there. The Las Vegas Bowl between Oregon State and BYU is certainly intriguing, as is the Holiday Bowl with Nebraska and Arizona. But if I had to pick one game to watch, it'd be the Hawaii Bowl. SMU's in its first bowl in for-freakin'-ever, and June Jones returns home. Meanwhile, Nevada's offense (read: Colin Kaepernick) is still worth the price of admission. Looking forward to spending Christmas Eve drinking heavily in front of the Hawaii Bowl.

3 - The only game on the schedule that I'm less than confident in is Illinois, and I'd give Mizzou a 40-percent shot in that one. So, somewhere between 13-2 and 12-3.

4 - Mizzou
Colorado State
Iowa State
Kansas State
Utah
Kansas

ZouDave: It's 11 in KC right now.  ELEVEN!  Blaine Gabbert's jersey number in degrees.  Our city goes to 11.
 
Our temperature is in binary for crying out loud!
 
SO SHUT YOUR HOLE!

Michael Atchison: What exactly is Alden is supposed to do?  Write a strongly-worded e-mail?  Bang his shoe on the table?  If you make a spectacle about being left out of the Insight Bowl, you become a national punchline.  The best stuff he can do is stuff you’ll never see.

The Beef: Which, from all reports from pretty much all sources, is exactly what he did

Doug: Regardless of what Alden did to try and get a better bowl for Missouri, I think we can all agree the Big 12 has a very poor bowl line-up. No games on New Year's Day, a contract with the Fiesta Bowl (not necessarily a bad bowl, just one that's played at a stadium in the middle of the desert) and then a rotation of pretty much third-tier games, once you get outside the Cotton Bowl. Hell, more than half of the Big 12 bowl contracts this year are with games played in the state of Texas. I know it's geographically convenient for the Big 12 South but who says fans wouldn't want to travel some where else in the country?

The Beef: I don’t have much of an issue with the Holiday and Alamo…even the Sun Bowl (which still has some cred considering its overall history and TV contract)…but I agree on the Indy bowl on down.  I don’t really mind getting the NYC Bowl..but how we don’t have a deal with the Liberty Bowl is beyond me.

Doug: Yeah, but the Sun Bowl is in El Paso and on New Year's Eve in the middle of the afternoon on CBS. Now, it's not that I don't mind not having to do as much work when the game is on, but I don't see it as a marquee game anymore.

The Beef: And that’s the thing…I am fine with the Sun Bowl..if it was #7 or #8…not #5.  And that whole deal with the Gator and Sun Bowl is too confusing anyway

ghtd36: I'd like to see some quotes in the paper from Alden expressing discontent, and questioning Beebe's leadership, to be quite honest.

The Beef: Can’t do that unless you have another conference on the horn…

ZouDave: And I in ABSOLUTELY NO WAY want to move to the Big Ten.  NO thank you.  I realize their TV contract is superior to the Big XII's in basically every way but that conference is AWFUL!
 
And we'd be trading our expected submission to all things Texas and Oklahoma for our expected submission to all things Ohio State and Michigan.  No improvement.

Michael Atchison: An expression of discontent would certainly show them.  Perhaps also a fit of pique.  And some sort of disgruntlement.

The Beef: As it pertains to the discussion which stemmed this…so too is their bowl lineup.  Northwestern is playing on New Years Day…

ghtd36: So, your solution is to...just take it? Being legitimately snubbed three years in a row is not a coincidence.

ZouDave: I don't think Atch's position is to just take it, but paraphrasing something he said about it earlier is that what Alden can and should do are things that we (the public) shouldn't and won't see.

He needs to be telling Beebe privately that this is BS.  Doing it in public only reflects poorly on us.

ghtd36: Then my question is, what are you doing to allay the fan base's concerns that Missouri has become the Big XII's proverbial doormat?

Michael Atchison: No, I didn’t say you just take it, but there’s nothing you can do in public that helps in the least, except, of course, for expressions of discontent.

I think calling last year a snub is a reach.  The Gator Bowl is a complete free agent in this process.  The only way this ever gets solved is if, in the next agreement with the bowls, the league gets some veto power over the choices.

The Beef: What does your solution do exactly that the alternative does not?  Make YOU feel better?

I hate to tell you…it has gone the other way before…we jumped to the Holiday Bowl in 1997 for about the same reason Iowa State jumped to the Insight…because it was BELIEVED we would travel better.  Mizzou’s biggest problem is that we went to the Indy Bowl in our recent history and drew pretty much squat, and then did not do so well at the Alamo Bowl last year.  I am not saying we deserve this snub, but I really only see us being TRULY snubbed once…and that was 2007.  Last year, NU is always going to win over us when it comes to fan base, and this year…who cares…we are better off.  Hell, we really were better off in 2007 except for the "prestige" argument, but I guarantee you we don’t bring the people to the Orange Bowl we brought to the Cotton Bowl, which right now is the only thing which makes us look GOOD as it pertains to the bowls.

Trust me…I get it…and there is nothing I would want to see more than the Big XII sack up and do what the Pac 10 does…put the team in the bowl based on finish.  Have the balls to send USC to the Emerald Bowl.  However, that’s not going to happen for a LOOOOOOOONG time, so here are the options

* Scream about it and bring attention about how you want to go to crap Bowl A over Crap Bowl B

* Change conferences

* Do nothing and hope the karma goes the other way

* Try to change the attendance perception this year and going forward

And the only thing to allay the fear that Mizzou has become the Big XII doormat is change our name to Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma or Nebraska.  Short of that…really?  You think there is something which can be done?

ZouDave: Just keep winning.  Just keep winning.  Just keep winning.  Winning. Winning.  What do we do?  We win, Win, WIN!  OH HO HO How I love to win.  When you WAAAAAAANNTTT to win you want to win.

ghtd36: OK.

The Beef: Do you know what I hate about ghtd’s emails?  And I don’t know if this happens to anyone else…but I don’t see what he responds to all the time…so I just got an OK…to what, I have no idea.  But OK

ZouDave: yeah, same here.  His responses don't include the previous messages.

Michael Atchison: Do you know what I hate about ghtd’s emails?  Receiving them.

I kid, I kid.

ZouDave:


ghtd36: It's just not worth arguing with someone who believes that the end justifies the means. Missouri is getting walked on for the third straight year -- or, at the very least, the second time in three years -- and the fan base is well aware of it. And restless about it. There has to come a point where someone in a leadership role sticks up for the program.

Trying to justify that going to the Texas Bowl is better than going to the Insight Bowl doesn't make it so.

ZouDave: well personally I'm not saying it's better, I'm saying it's not worse.

The Beef: OK..but it is just as maddening to debate this with someone (and/or a fan base) who just wants blood for the sake of the blood, but does not appear too interested in fixing the issue.

Here are the fixes…the REALISTIC fixes

Mizzou fans can accept the reality (which is they are not one of the four schools I mentioned), quit their bitching, man up, and go to this damn game.  If they can’t do that…then they need to buy tickets anyway.  And then they need to show up to all the games they buy tickets for next year…which sure as hell did not happen this year.

Or

Mizzou can look at a change in conferences…which is not all that realistic as it is.

That’s it…that’s the list.  Anything else involves a complete paradigm shift which just aint coming from this conference any time soon, nor does Mizzou even come close to having the clout to make it happen.

Anything else is pissing into the wind.  Might make you feel better, but you are creating another problem.

And again…because YOU have not seen the leadership sticking up for the program does not mean it has not happened.  The world does not revolve around you…

Michael Atchison: Damn straight, it revolves around me.

ZouDave: it revolves around ZouDave's sister as far as my family is concerned...

Is this the first time that I've been the one to bring her up in a roundtable?

The Beef: Wow…yeah…that kind of creeped me out

Doug: I'll second that.

And, does this mean you have to atomic finger yourself?

ZouDave: Good, maybe that will take away some of its power!

Doug: Oh, no, you can never take away power that great.

ZouDave: I think I've seen Jenna Haze atomic finger herself

RPT: Given the context of this conversation, I thought "atomic finger" had a TOTALLY different connotation.

The Beef: Eh…that’s nothing ZD did not already do to himself some lonely Friday night back in high school

Doug: Note to Atch: Do not type that into Google Image.

ghtd36: OK..but it is just as maddening to debate this with someone (and/or a fan base) who just wants blood for the sake of the blood, but does not appear too interested in fixing the issue. 

I'm not out for blood for the sake of blood, and I'm absolutely interested in fixing the issue at hand. That's, you know, why I'm talking. I'm not looking for Beebe's head; I'm looking for some accountability on behalf of both the conference and the athletic department's leadership.

Mizzou fans can accept the reality (which is they are not one of the four schools I mentioned), quit their bitching, man up, and go to this damn game.  If they can’t do that…then they need to buy tickets anyway.  And then they need to show up to all the games they buy tickets for next year…which sure as hell did not happen this year.

That's what Mizzou fans (myself included) will do, eventually. But doing that and only that is not going to be enough to help in "fixing the issue."

Mizzou can look at a change in conferences…which is not all that realistic as it is.

It may not be realistic, but isn't it something you at the very least explore if the Big XII is dead set in its ways? If your boss betrayed you out at work, wouldn't you let him know that you don't appreciate it, or else start looking for other jobs?

That’s it…that’s the list.  Anything else involves a complete paradigm shift which just aint coming from this conference any time soon, nor does Mizzou even come close to having the clout to make it happen. 

It doesn't involve a "complete paradigm shift." It involves making the conference perfectly aware that you're not pleased with the direction that the bowl selection has undertaken in recent years. It's a tweak, not a shift. It's not all or nothing.

And you're telling me that Mizzou doesn't have the clout to talk to the commissioner of its conference to get a better shake in the bowl selection? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of a conference?

And again…because YOU have not seen the leadership sticking up for the program does not mean it has not happened.  The world does not revolve around you…

But doesn't Mike Alden represent the entire athletic program, including the fans? I'm not asking for anybody's head or any sort of rant. All I want is a simple press release that says that Alden understand the fan base's concerns over the bowl selection process, and that he's spoken to commissioner Beebe about it. That's all. Doesn't seem too "blood for the sake of blood" to me.

The Beef: I'm not out for blood for the sake of blood, and I'm absolutely interested in fixing the issue at hand. That's, you know, why I'm talking. I'm not looking for Beebe's head; I'm looking for some accountability on behalf of both the conference and the athletic department's leadership.

This conference, forever and always, has been accountable to one thing, and one thing only. Money.  It is being made by a few schools.  The rest of us (and yes…it is US, since we are along for the ride), don’t get near the say.  So this conference is accountable to money, and whatever or whoever brings it in.  That would be TV, the bowls, and the Big 4.  You think anyone is going to come out and spell that out quite like that?

That's what Mizzou fans (myself included) will do, eventually. But doing that and only that is not going to be enough to help in "fixing the issue."

It’s not?  You mean if we start actually showing up to all home games, road games and bowl games, the perception the bowl games have about us wont change?  Really?  Did Nebraska and Oklahoma always draw well from day 1?  The longer it takes to get to eventually, the longer this is going to go on…and if our fans are too stupid to realize it, then we will ALMOST continue to deserve it.

It may not be realistic, but isn't it something you at the very least explore if the Big XII is dead set in its ways? If your boss betrayed you out at work, wouldn't you let him know that you don't appreciate it, or else start looking for other jobs?

It is only realistic if another conference is actively recruiting you…which the Big 10 most certainly is not.  You can make all the arguments for or against why they might recruit us, but since it ain’t happening, threatening it is just hollow since the Big XII knows damn good and well WE can’t just CHOOSE to join them.

It doesn't involve a "complete paradigm shift." It involves making the conference perfectly aware that you're not pleased with the direction that the bowl selection has undertaken in recent years. It's a tweak, not a shift. It's not all or nothing.

And you're telling me that Mizzou doesn't have the clout to talk to the commissioner of its conference to get a better shake in the bowl selection? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of a conference?


It absolutely involves a paradigm shift.  It involves renegotiating bowl contracts to say, "You WILL get the (whatever) seeded team, as opposed to you being able to decide before basically however you wanted."  And given the geographic issues already discussed in this thread, how exactly do you think that is going to go?  The conference (for better or worse, most likely worst) SOLD THEIR SOUL to these bowl games.  If you are outraged now, where were you then?

But doesn't Mike Alden represent the entire athletic program, including the fans? I'm not asking for anybody's head or any sort of rant. All I want is a simple press release that says that Alden understand the fan base's concerns over the bowl selection process, and that he's spoken to commissioner Beebe about it. That's all. Doesn't seem too "blood for the sake of blood" to me.

And so all of the stories written about this did not provide you with exactly what you just outlined?  How many comments from Mark Alnutt have to be made until you do decide it satisfies whatever limit you need reached.

ghtd36: I don't disagree with you that the conference is accountable to the bottom line, but if the Big XII is going to support Kansas to the Orange Bowl instead of Missouri and Iowa State to the Insight Bowl instead of Mizzou...isn't that picking and choosing? Since when are Kansas and Iowa State -- two schools whose football programs (with all due respect to our friends at Clone Chronicles and Rock Chalk Talk) have been pretty much nonexistent for the better part of a decade -- more prominent and better-drawing than Mizzou?

Is it just a sorry coincidence that Missouri has been passed over at least twice in the past three years for teams that it has beaten head to head AND draws better than? I'm fine with not being one of the big dogs; but it certainly seems like the Big XII is playing favorites with the second-class citizens of the conference.

And all I've heard from Mike Alnutt is that they sent people to the Insight Bowl committee to lobby (and it failed), and that "it is what it is." Hardly a strong stance on behalf of the fans.

Bill C.: So because I need to get this posted in the next 20 minutes, I'll just summarize thusly:

ghtd36's point of view:


The Beef's point of view:


ZouDave's point of view:


ghtd36: I don't disagree with you that the conference is accountable to the bottom line, but if the Big XII is going to support Kansas to the Orange Bowl instead of Missouri and Iowa State to the Insight Bowl instead of Mizzou...isn't that picking and choosing? Since when are Kansas and Iowa State -- two schools whose football programs (with all due respect to our friends at Clone Chronicles and Rock Chalk Talk) have been pretty much nonexistent for the better part of a decade -- more prominent and better-drawing than Mizzou? 

Is it just a sorry coincidence that Missouri has been passed over at least twice in the past three years for teams that it has beaten head to head AND draws better than? I'm fine with not being one of the big dogs; but it certainly seems like the Big XII is playing favorites with the second-class citizens of the conference.

And all I've heard from Mike Alnutt is that they sent people to the Insight Bowl committee to lobby (and it failed), and that "it is what it is." Hardly a strong stance on behalf of the fans.

The Beef: So between what you heard from Mark Alnutt and what was reported (and I believe even quoted from Beebe about what Missouri was doing properly behind the scenes) on the process...I guess I have nothing left to offer to satisfy whatever standard or criteria you need met....because I just don't understand what else you are realistically looking for from the people that has not already either been said, or would be stupid to say. 

Atch: This is going well, I think.

ZouDave: And...

Outlook_medium

ghtd36: "I'm not asking for anybody's head or any sort of rant. All I want is a simple press release that says that Alden understand the fan base's concerns over the bowl selection process, and that he's spoken to commissioner Beebe about it."

That hasn't been said by Alnutt or Alden, and it certainly wouldn't be, as you so aptly put it, "stupid to say."

The Beef: And it's not going to be said...no PR person worth his salt would tell you that is in ANY way a smart move because there is no possible way to do it without pissing off the conference...which is not what you want to do when you feel like you are already on the short end of the stick...

So yes...it would certainly fall under the criteria of "stupid to say."

Atch: Can we have some sort of lottery to determine which of these guys gets the last word?

RPT: The Knicks will still win it.

Doug: I think this will work:

Arguingontheinternet_medium

ghtd36: You're going to need to explain to me how the Big XII is going to get pissed off by an athletic director sticking up for his fans and letting them know that he is having a conversation -- a conversation, not a confrontation or a war -- with the powers that be. It's not a declaration of war; it's a press release about a discussion. And if you don't do that, then you're going to continue to be taking it in the shorts year after year, because you will have let yourself be bullied.

So again, my plan is to let the fans know that you understand their concerns and are speaking with the commissioner to hopefully fix this in the future. That is not an extreme, out there, OMG BRING BACK THE FULLBACK plan; it's a practical, safe yet firm one.

The plan to be patient, buy tickets and hope puts no accountability on the athletic department to best represent the program.

ghtd36: So very sorry for having a conversation IN A ROUNDTABLE.

Mea culpa.

The Beef: THE MEDIA CYCLE DID IT FOR YOU ALREADY! All those stories about Mizzou getting screwed. All those stories with comments from MU admins...your press release HAS ALREADY BEEN WRITTEN. Which is why I just don't get what else you want? No...an Athletic Director is NEVER going to come out with his own press release saying what you want him to say. It just wont happen. The reason it wont happen is not because of what he may or may not say. It is because he will be taking the additional effort beyond what has already been said to say it. THAT is what the conference would take umbrage with...because there would be nothing for him to say which has not already been said and covered by all the stories written.

Bill C.: I really want that pic to be the final word.

Atch: You really want that pic to be the final word? I hate to be Captain Sensitive, but it's a bridge too far to me. I'm all for making fun of people, but not innocent, defenseless people.

Signed,
Captain Sensitive

ghtd36: So Mike Alden bears exactly no responsibility in this situation? He does nothing but lay back and take it? We instead defer to the media with nothing official from the athletic department? 

Doug: The infamous "Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics" picture.

The Beef: I got some sort of messed up email from ghtd with I THINK this as a response

"So Mike Alden bears exactly no responsibility in this situation? He does nothing but lay back and take it? We instead defer to the media with nothing official from the athletic department?"

To which I say...you are just never going to get it...so I am done. Your inability to grasp how ANY athletic department, our conference and world works has beaten me into submission and I am on the verge of arguing myself retarded. Yes. Clearly Mike Alden has not lifted a finger in this process. He has laid there like a whore on payday and just taken it where ever the customer was paying to put it. You win, the last email is yours.

ZouDave:

Lets-hug-it-out_medium

Atch: Obviously, we need somethin. to unite us here at the end, so I hope we call all agree that Pokemon is demonic.

ZouDave: I think even at this point everyone in this discussion will agree that kansas sucks. That always seems to be a unifying factor.

Doug: Wait... you guys hate Kansas? When did this happen?

ZouDave: For me, 6/10/76

The Beef: I'll say late September 1994...which is about the time I got accepted...what can I say? I was late to the party.

RPT: This roundtable has come to a merciful end

Amd_mets_fans_medium

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