Rock M Roundtable!
by Bill C. on Mar 4, 2009 2:00 PM CST
in Rock M Roundtable!
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Atch is out today...someone will have to pick up the snarky slack!
1 - Tell me why Mizzou is going to beat OU tonight.
2 - If you had to bet your life on Mizzou getting a specific seed in the NCAA Tourney, what's it going to be? 3? 4? 5?
3 - I'm sure I've asked this question before (like, this exact time last year), but...when you hear the words "March Madness," what image/play/memory flashes into your brain?
4 - Let's say a mid-major conference team (Team A) goes something like 25-7 with an RPI of around 35. They only lose a couple conference games, but then they lose in their conference tourney. Meanwhile, there's a major conference team (Team B), say, from the Big East or ACC. They're about 17-11 with a 7-9 or 8-10 conference record and RPI around 50 or 60. Team A is, say, 0-2 vs the RPI Top 50. Team B is 2-6--they've beaten a couple of good teams, but they've lost to a ton of them. To which team do you give the final at-large bid into the NCAAs?
5 - Spring football is right around the corner! Just thought I'd point that out. What's your favorite Spring Football memory? (Subquestion: do you have a favorite Spring Football memory?)
Ridiculous Matt: 1. We tend to swing between playing absolutely terrible and destroying whatever's in front of us. If this were a pendulum, after Sunday we should be able to beat the Detroit Pistons tonight.
2. 4. Just feels right. We may end up getting punished more for our huge letdowns on national television though.
3. Well, it's weird. Every time someone asks me that, I think about this play, I know it involves UCLA and Missouri, and Missouri being up late in the game, but then I try and think about it and I pass ouuttt....Wha? What happened? Where am I? Who are you?
4. Team B. Why? Because we've been there before. I'd also want to take a loot at point differential for the season and in those RPI Top 50 teams.
5. The excitement of last year, which is kind of like how excited I was at the trailer for Godzilla. Then I went in the theater. Then I cred blood.
rptgwb: 1. Mizzou is a different team at home. They don't just beat teams, they thrash teams. I'm not guaranteeing a win here, but Missouri can force mistakes from this Sooner team, and as long as the shots aren't cold like they were on Sunday, Missouri's got a legit shot at OU.
2. I'll go ahead and just guess four. I think Missouri fits in the 13-16 range of best teams in the country.
3. Gus Johnson yelling over the CBS theme. I know that's not one specific memory, but it's better than copping out and saying the name of a UCLA Guard Who Shall Not Be Mentioned or a Kansas Guard Who We Pretend Never Hit a 3 To Send Last Year's Title Game to Overtime. And, yes, those are their official titles.
4. I appreciate the mid-majors and what they bring to college basketball, but I tend to sympathize with the major conference teams. The way I view it, what would happen if you switch the two team's places? What if Team B played in Team A's conference and vice versa? This is all a hypothetical guessing game, but I'm assuming Team B ultimately fares better.
5. We're supposed to have spring football memories?
On an unrelated note, I'm thinking it's time RMN adopts a nickname for Cole Aldrich. I'd like to officially nominate "Tarzan Boy," just so every single time he's mentioned, we have an excuse to drop this video.
The Beef: Wait….I get to be as negative as I want to be today? Awesome…make way for...
1 - Honestly, I have had this pegged as a loss in my head for a long time because I just think Griffin can cause so many match-up problems for us that we are going to struggle to overcome them. But this team appears to be 20-25 points better at home than on the road, so maybe we would lose to OU by 19 in Norman if we played them
2 - I am sitting 4 all the way. I see us falling tonight before finishing with a win at aTm (even though they are playing well and for their lives right now). I think they head into OKC, winning the first game in the quarterfinals before losing in the semis. I don’t think we can squeeze a 3 out of that finish, but I don’t think it is so bad it relegates us down to a 5. Of course, I would kill for a 3 and I think we stand a good chance to get it with either a win tonight or making the finals of the Big XII Tourney. Big difference to me in playing a 2 in the Sweet 16 rather than a 1.
3 - I see the highlight of Jimmy V running around to be honest. While alive, I did not see that game live. I see that, and then think about G’Town/St. John’s/’Nova all in the Final 4 that one year. I see Patrick Ewing and John Thompson hugging the crap out of whoever that was. It seems that my memories were made at an early age, since I don’t necessarily think of UCONN winning either of their championships (which were certainly big moments in my fan-dom)
4 - I pick Team B….just to piss The Boy off. How’s that for snarky!
5 - I remember my wife leaving the game last year after about 10 minutes and likely thinking I was insane for sitting there. Other than that…I remember the freezing cold games and ridiculously hot games…and that there never seem to be any really just in the middle.
ZouDave: 1 - BECAUSE STONE COLD SAYS SO!
Or...because we're at home and we're undefeated at home for a reason. And it's not even just that we're undefeated at home, we've only been challenged a single time at home and that was by our arch-rival who happens to be a pretty damn good team. Senior night for Lyons and Carroll so I expect JYD to be playing as well as he can and I definitely expect Good Leo to show up.
2 - Four Seed. We're going to finish the regular season around #15, we're going to win our first B12 Tourney game and then lose to Oklahoma in the semis, and we're going to be a 4 seed. We'll see what #1 seed we're rooting against come Selection Sunday.
3 - Bryce Drew running "Pacer" for the win against Mississippi State.
4 - Team A. I know it sucks for the big boy to have to be up against such stiff competition, but that's how it goes.
5 - Beau Viehmann!
I can't really say for sure I have a favorite Spring Game memory, other than I just really like going. The Spring Game 2 years ago was awesome because I got to go to the Letterman's Reunion before the game which gave me an opportunity to see and meet a multitude of former Mizzou players and that kicked ass. I even got to meet Beau Viehmann!
The Boy: Thank you, Dave. I was wondering if I was surrounded by Digger's and Bilas's with all the "major conference superiority" stuff. I'm about to drop some damn knowledge on all you snobs (that's right, I said it), but first I have to answer three other questions...
1 - I just wrote like 5,000 words on the topic, so I'm not sure I'll spend time answering this. We're great at home, and I think we cause them as many matchup problems as they cause us.
2 - Yeah, we're aiming square at a #4. If we beat both OU and ATM this week, things may change, but until that happens we're looking at possibly a 3-2 or 2-3 or 2-4 finish to the season, and we'll slip a bit.
3 - I remember Bryce Drew...I remember Tyus F***ing Edney and Christian F***ing Laettner...I remember Rickey Paulding's launchpad dunk against Ohio State in Albuquerque the year The Beef and I were dumb enough to make that weekend trip...
4 - I think I've made it very clear where I fall on this. I ALWAYS take Team A for a number of reasons: 1) I'm a fan of the underdog (ironic considering when I adopt pro teams they go from favorite to underdog), 2) They've had less opportunity to prove themselves, and I don't necessarily think a Maryland would do all that much better in Siena's conference than Siena does--make them play at teams like Niagara or Rider, and they'd probably lose a couple too (hell, Maryland lost to Morgan State at home this year--Siena wouldn't have done that), and 3) from a "fun for the kids" perspective, giving a Siena or Creighton or George Mason or Western Kentucky a 12-seed and having a group of them go to the NCAA regionals is a much more memorable experience for them than the same thing for Maryland or Notre Dame or even Oklahoma State students.
But nevermind my emotional reaction to this. I decided to throw some data together too. I looked at all 10-12 seeds from the last five NCAA tourneys and broke them into mid-majors and majors. Here are their records:
2008: Mid-majors 5-7 (including one loss to a fellow mid-major), Majors 2-5
2007: Mid-majors 2-7 (including two losses to fellow mid-majors), Majors 0-5
2006: Mid-majors 7-8, Majors 3-4
2005: Mid-majors 3-9 (including one loss to a fellow mid-major), Majors 2-3
2004: Mid-majors 3-10, Majors 0-2
10-12 seeds from mid-major conferences have out-performed those from major conferences in terms of winning percentage in four of the last five years. Not only does it probably mean more to them to get a bid, but they're likely to perform better as well. And with that, I get to tell Digger to stick his highlighter up his four-leaf clover.
I'm proud of myself for that one. :-)
5 - I remember craptastic weather every single year, I remember last year's great crowd, I remember talking myself into the Kirk Farmer Era, I remember trying to teach my friend Jeffrey how to hold and swing a golf club for an hour at Perche Creek before the B&G game one year...I guess I remember lots of stuff, but little of it actually has to do with the football being played.
ZouDave: With today being National Grammar Day, I feel like I have to pick on a few things just to be a jerk (somebody has to do it since Atch isn't here, and since I've got a meeting from 10:30 - 12:00, then lunch, then another meeting from 2:00 - 5:00 I gotta get my shots in now).
So...
4. Team B. Why? Because we've been there before. I'd also want to take a loot at point differential for the season and in those RPI Top 50 teams
I'm sorry, a what? You want to take a *what* at point differential?
Then I cred blood.
You did what with the blood? Is this some kind of new urban vernacular that I'm not familiar with?
And as for Cole Aldrich, can we take it a few steps further and call him Listerine? Possibly Cool Mint?
Ridiculous Matt: I literally have no idea how I screwed those two up. Must have gotten my brain scrambled with all the writing I did earlier this week for an ESPN TRUE HOOP NETWORK BLOG.
Sorry, I have trouble controlling the volume of my keyboard.
The Boy: Translation: I'M TOO IMPORTANT FOR THIS ROUNDTABLE.
(On a side note, I love that Matt's blog is on the True Hoop network.)
rptgwb: I was watching Baylor/Texas on Monday, and recognized something the band was playing. I was both impressed and horrendously depressed that I was able to recognize that they were playing Tarzan Boy.
I then saw the YouTube video and thought it was too priceless not to work into the RMN fold.
ZouDave: Matt says:
Ridiculous Matt: Being a member of the TrueHoop network and .50 will get you a cupcake at the local bakery.
ZouDave: I was looking for a cupcake with 50 Cent on it, but this will just have to do because I have to run:
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i'm going to answer these, because it's a hell of a lot better than biology
1. Mizzou’s great at home. I think if JYD et al can shut down Griffin just enough and force some turnovers, Mizzou’s got a great chance of winning this game. I’ll echo the Boy however in saying that if Oklahoma’s making treys, that significantly reduces our chances of winning, especially if we’re not forcing turnovers from Griffin on top of it.
2. I honestly think Mizzou could still top out as a 2 seed, but I see a 3 seed in their future. The potential is there for wins tonight and Saturday, which would give the 2 seed in the B12 tourney. I think if MIzzou beats their second round opponent, eeks it out vs Oklahoma for the second time in a week, and then barely loses to kU in the title game, the commitee might give them the benefit of the doubt for a 2 seed. More than likely though, they lose to OU and get a 3 seed.
3. I’m a young one, and this will only be my 8th or 9th March that I’ve really paid attention to. With that being said, I’m going to have to say the 2006 upset that Northwestern State pulled over Iowa. I remember sitting in class and watching as that desperation 3 went in with .6 to go and me just sitting there shocked. I had Iowa in my elite eight that year. Safe to say, class didn’t go so well that day. Still one of my favorite YouTube moments however.
4. I don’t know if those are real numbers you put out there, but I’m going to equate Team A with a Creighton or Siena or Davidson and Team B with someone like Georgetown. With that being said, would I rather see Georgetown get a 12 or 13 and get dominated by better team or would I rather see that spot given to Davidson and then have them pull the upset. Which would I rather watch. Davidson. Team A gets the spot.
5. What’s Spring Football?
by stlcardinalsfang on Mar 4, 2009 2:37 PM CST reply actions
I'm back
1 – Tell me why Mizzou is going to beat OU tonight.
Because it’s the last game at home for Carroll, Lyons and Lawrence, and there would be no poetry in losing. This season deserves to have the appropriate ending.
2 – If you had to bet your life on Mizzou getting a specific seed in the NCAA Tourney, what’s it going to be? 3? 4? 5?
I’ll guess 4. I think 3 is more likely than 5.
3 – I’m sure I’ve asked this question before (like, this exact time last year), but…when you hear the words “March Madness,” what image/play/memory flashes into your brain?
Because I’m the only one here old enough to remember, I’ll flash back to when the tournament was on NBC, with Dick Enberg, Billy Packer and Al McGuire calling the games, and Kenny Loggins’s “This is It” serving as the theme song (shove your “One Shining Moment” – has there ever been a worse song? – where the sun isn’t shining). It’s Bird vs. Magic, with Al McGuire shouting “Greg Kelsa!” It’s Isiah winning it in 1981 on the same day that Ronald Reagan was shot. It’s Michael Jordan hitting the shot against Georgetown. But more than anything, I think it’s Jim Valvano running around and looking for someone to hug. I remember all of those games.
4 – Let’s say a mid-major conference team (Team A) goes something like 25-7 with an RPI of around 35. They only lose a couple conference games, but then they lose in their conference tourney. Meanwhile, there’s a major conference team (Team B), say, from the Big East or ACC. They’re about 17-11 with a 7-9 or 8-10 conference record and RPI around 50 or 60. Team A is, say, 0-2 vs the RPI Top 50. Team B is 2-6—they’ve beaten a couple of good teams, but they’ve lost to a ton of them. To which team do you give the final at-large bid into the NCAAs?
I want to know more, specifically exactly who those teams have beaten. If you’re not one of the top 24 seeded teams, you have no shot to win the tournament. And if you can’t win it, the only reason for you to be there is to make it interesting. And the thing that’s most interesting about the tournament is the lower seeds that jump up and beat someone on opening weekend. If you’ve not shown that you can beat someone good all season, I don’t think you can make a compelling case for inclusion. Frankly, I’m not all that excited about either team listed.
5 – Spring football is right around the corner! Just thought I’d point that out. What’s your favorite Spring Football memory? (Subquestion: do you have a favorite Spring Football memory?) I like to watch the punts with no one on the field.
by Michael Atchison on Mar 4, 2009 2:49 PM CST reply actions
Oh no...I too remember games on NBC
Hell…for a long time I only thought there were about 4 arenas in the country. The old gym at UNC, NC St., The Rosemount Horizon at Depaul and Pauley Pavillion at UCLA because those were the only places they ever went.
"Write a wise saying and your name will live forever." - Anonymous
Rock M Nation
DePaul
You’re right about that. I think I saw every game of Mark Aguirre’s career. Ralph Sampson’s, too.
by Michael Atchison on Mar 4, 2009 3:03 PM CST up reply actions
I missed Sampson by maybe a couple of years...
but I left out the ol’ Capital Centre in Washington D.C. as I saw PLENTY of Patrick Ewing and his grey undershirts
"Write a wise saying and your name will live forever." - Anonymous
Rock M Nation
The joy of two monitors at the lab
1. MU will edge out the win, but just barely. I think that OU has the inside/outside game to nearly overcome a hostile enviroment, but the ability of Anderson to throw his bench and a kitchen sink into guarding griffin may get him into foul trouble or just be really tired.
2. I think we’re a solid 4. I would rather MU beats OU and aTm, then gets a win in the tourney to boost us to a 3. Mainly because the 4/12 games seem to give the most upsets (no proof, but I pick those a lot). I don’t see how we could get to a 5, unless they really, really wet the bed in the next two weeks.
3. Not so much a play (well, maybe that Lattnier shot), but more that when I was in high school, my math class turned into a defacto RMN roundtable during the Tourney…our teachers hated it, but for four years, that all we did (diven by Matt Coss, who is now one of the beat writers for Northern Iowa).
4. Team A. You need to win your games. If B (say, KSU) can’t get it done, then too bad. I’m kinda sick and tired of the whole “they don’t play anyone” when the bigs won’t play them (say, Gonzaga) because the big is to afraid of losing. If team A wins, does it well, then reward them.
5. Uh, walking by the locker room when Tyler Llewelen (or whatever) came out and getting sized up by him. I pretty sure he could have ended me right there….then he saw my red beard and his red beard and figured we came from the same tribe back in the day.
I'm the guy that keeps Mr. Death in his pocket.
I remember watching NC State win it ...
… but the first NCAA tournament I truly followed was Villanova over G-Town. I didn’t know the game well (was only 10 at the time), but I know I didn’t like Georgetown and Patrick Ewing. So I rooted for anyone and everyone to beat them and keep them from repeating. When my old man explained that Villanova had zero chance to beat them, I was kind of disappointed, but I watched anyway.
The mid-to-late 80s wasn’t a great time to be a Tiger fan in March. First, we had a sustained drought from Stipo to Chievous. And then we had Xavier-Rhode Island-and-Northern Iowa all within a four-year period. But that ‘89 team certainly stoked my fire for Mizzou in the tournament. I can only imagine how far we’d have gone if Norm hadn’t have gotten sick.
Was once caught putting at night ... with the 15-year old daughter of the dean
Off Topic
We’re going to have the Magic Man Willie Smith on the show today at 5p.
Any questions for him?
The sleeper has awoken. . .awakened. . .he woke up.
Next time you are in Mizzou Arena, look up in the rafters
Here’s a piece on him from PM
The sleeper has awoken. . .awakened. . .he woke up.
oh that willie smith
wasn’t there a wie willie smith too….
I'm the guy that keeps Mr. Death in his pocket.
Did Kim Anderson deserve a technical in the '76 game against Michigan?
For those that don’t know, Mizzou played Michigan in the Regional Finals in 1976 (the year Indiana went undefeated). Mizzou was up something like six points with the ball with like four minutes left (Willie, by the way, had 43 that game, I believe). Anderson followed up a missed shot and slammed the ball home. Because of the short-lived David Thompson rule, the basket was disallowed and Mizzou was assessed a technical. Michigan makes the two freebies, gets a bucket on the ensuing possession, and boom, an eight-point lead was trimmed to two in seconds.
Michigan comes back to beat Mizzou. Norm doesn’t get to the Final Four in his first opportunity (or any of his others) and kU has something to tease us about forever and ever (or at least till we make a Final Four).
So my question is this: had that play turned out different, could that single play have altered Mizzou’s basketball fortunes? Or am I just an obsessed fan who is looking for something to blame?
Was once caught putting at night ... with the 15-year old daughter of the dean
by mitch cumstein on Mar 4, 2009 4:58 PM CST up reply actions
Crap, my comp died before the interview.
We’re going to have him on again when the tourney starts. I’ll keep the question for then.
That’s one cool dude.
Thanks, Mitch.
The sleeper has awoken. . .awakened. . .he woke up.
To add to Spring Football talk...
PM just put up its preview of the linebackers, and this was my thought process on loop for the next five minutes:
“EBNER EBNER EBNER EBNER EBNER SPOOOOOOOOOOOON EBNER EBNER SPOON EBNER EBNER”
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