Where We Stand: 2009-10 vs 2008-09
We spend a lot of time comparing this year's events to last year -- the Texas Tech win was a lot like the Oklahoma State win from last year, the OU loss can be compared to the Nebraska loss from last year, et cetera. But since we have the stats available to us, how about we use them to compare Mizzou in mid-January to last year?
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Through three conference games last year, Mizzou stood at 2-1 in conference, 15-3 overall. Through a similar time period this year, Mizzou is 2-1 in conference, 14-4 overall. They have been mostly untouchable at home while still trying to find their bearings on the road -- at this point last year, they were 3-3 on the road or on a neutral court, this year they're 3-4.
Noting all the similarities, I thought it would be interesting to start trying to look at the differences. Since I have been using the same structure and data pieces to write about the basketball team for well over a year now, I can find a similar point of comparison by simply going back and finding the post I wrote after last year's third conference game (a home romp over Iowa State) and seeing how things looked against "real" opponents at the time.
At this point in the season last year, Mizzou had played eight games against what I call "real" opponents, i.e. major conference teams, decent mid-majors, and road opponents. Here is the list of last year's "real" opponents, with their final Ken Pomeroy rank for the season (I wish we could look at where they were ranked at this time last year, but we can't):
- vs #20 Xavier (L, 71-75)
- vs #24 Illinois (L, 59-75)
- vs #26 USC (W, 83-72)
- #32 California (W, 93-66)
- at #64 Nebraska (L, 51-56)
- #112 Iowa State (W, 77-46)
- #168 Colorado (W, 107-62)
- at #200 Georgia (W, 83-76)
Against opponents averaging a rank of 81.5, they were 5-3, averaging 78.0 points, giving up 66.0, and posting the following stats:
2008-09: Mizzou vs. "Real" Opponents after Three Big 12 Games
| Mizzou | Opp. |
|
| Points Per Minute |
1.96 | 1.65 |
| Points Per Possession (PPP) |
1.13 | 0.95 |
| Points Per Shot (PPS) |
1.31 | 1.25 |
| 2-PT FG% | 52.6% | 45.6% |
| 3-PT FG% | 35.6% | 33.3% |
| FT% | 65.5% | 64.2% |
| Mizzou | Opp. | |
| Assists | 137 | 102 |
| Steals | 83 | 44 |
| Turnovers | 95 | 152 |
| Ball Control Index (Assists + Steals) / TO |
2.32 | 0.96 |
| Mizzou | Opp. | |
| Expected Offensive Rebounds | 99 | 98 |
| Offensive Rebounds | 97 | 97 |
| Difference | -2 | -1 |
| Player | AdjGS* | GS/Min | Line |
| DeMarre Carroll | 14.66 | 0.52 | 14.6 PPG, 6.6 RPG, 1.9 APG, 1.8 SPG |
| Leo Lyons | 13.15 | 0.56 | 14.9 PPG, 5.1 RPG, 2.4 APG, 1.4 SPG |
| J.T. Tiller | 10.33 | 0.43 | 9.0 PPG, 3.4 RPG, 3.3 APG, 1.8 SPG |
| Zaire Taylor | 8.85 | 0.35 | 7.5 PPG, 3.4 RPG, 2.8 APG |
| Kim English | 6.91 | 0.48 | 7.6 PPG, 0.8 RPG, 1.3 APG |
| Keith Ramsey | 6.64 | 0.42 | 4.3 PPG, 2.6 RPG, 0.9 APG, 1.4 BPG |
| Marcus Denmon | 6.52 | 0.37 | 7.8 PPG, 2.5 RPG, 1.3 APG |
| Laurence Bowers | 5.56 | 0.65 | 5.0 PPG, 1.8 RPG, 0.8 APG |
| Matt Lawrence | 4.23 | 0.20 | 5.3 PPG, 2.1 RPG, 0.5 APG |
| Justin Safford | 3.13 | 0.29 | 3.4 PPG, 2.3 RPG, 1.0 APG |
| Miguel Paul | 0.80 | 0.06 | 2.6 PPG, 1.4 RPG, 1.4 APG |
| Michael Anderson Jr. |
0.76 | 0.11 | 0.0 PPG, 1.3 RPG, 1.0 Coach's Son |
| Jarrett Sutton | 0.20 | 0.07 | 1 Walk-On 3-pointer every 3 games |
| Steve Moore | 0.12 | 0.02 | 1.0 PPG, 1.3 RPG, 0.7 APG |
This season, Mizzou is 6-4 against "real" opponents, with the following results and rankings:
- #9 Kansas State (W, 74-68)
- at #21 Vanderbilt (L, 83-89)
- vs #28 Old Dominion (W, 66-61)
- vs #50 Illinois (W, 81-68)
- vs #73 Richmond (L, 52-59)
- at #90 Oklahoma (L, 61-66)
- at #91 Texas Tech (W, 94-89)
- #94 Georgia (W, 89-61)
- #103 Oregon (W, 106-69)
- at #151 Oral Roberts (L, 59-60)
They are 6-4 against teams averaging a rank of 71.0, scoring 76.5 points and allowing 69.0. In other words, against a slightly better average opponent, they are scoring 1.5 fewer points and allowing 3.0 more, with a very similar win percentage. Here are their stats:
2009-10: Mizzou vs. "Real" Opponents after Three Big 12 Games
| Mizzou (2009-10) |
Opp. (2009-10) |
Mizzou (2008-09) |
Opp. (2008-09) |
|
| Points Per Minute |
1.89 | 1.70 | 1.96 | 1.65 |
| Points Per Possession (PPP) |
1.08 | 0.97 | 1.13 | 0.95 |
| Points Per Shot (PPS) |
1.24 | 1.22 | 1.31 | 1.25 |
| 2-PT FG% | 44.5% | 45.6% | 52.6% | 45.6% |
| 3-PT FG% | 37.3% | 32.2% | 35.6% | 33.3% |
| FT% | 73.3% | 72.1% | 65.5% | 64.2% |
| Mizzou | Opp. | Mizzou | Opp. | |
| Assists/Gm | 15.2 | 10.6 | 17.1 | 12.8 |
| Steals/Gm | 10.3 | 6.7 | 10.4 | 5.5 |
| Turnovers/Gm | 13.7 | 19.9 | 11.9 | 19.0 |
| Ball Control Index (Assists + Steals) / TO |
1.86 | 0.87 | 2.32 | 0.96 |
| Mizzou | Opp. | Mizzou | Opp. | |
| Expected Offensive Rebounds/Gm | 13.7 | 12.8 | 12.4 | 12.3 |
| Offensive Rebounds/Gm | 14.1 | 14.9 | 12.1 | 12.1 |
| Difference/Gm | +0.4 | +2.1 | -0.3 | -0.1 |
- Points Per Minute: Mizzou is scoring slightly fewer and allowing slightly more.
- Points Per Possession: Mizzou is scoring slightly fewer and allowing slightly more.
- Points Per Shot: Mizzou is scoring slightly fewer and allowing slightly fewer. (So they're allowing fewer per shot, but giving up more shots.)
- 2-PT FG%: Mizzou is shooting significantly worse, their opponents exactly the same.
- 3-PT FG%: Mizzou is slightly better, their opponents slightly worse.
- FT%: Mizzou and their opponents are both shooting better, resulting in basically the same margin.
- Assists/Gm: Mizzou is averaging 1.9 fewer, allowing 2.2 fewer.
- Steals/Gm: Mizzou is averaging the same, allowing 1.2 more.
- Turnovers/Gm: Mizzou is averaging 1.8 more, forcing 0.9 more. Biggest culprits: J.T. Tiller, who has done a much worse job of handling the ball this year, and Keith Ramsey, who is averaging more turnovers than Leo Lyons in similar minutes.
- BCI: Mizzou is a decent amount worse this year. Their opponents are a hair worse as well.
- Rebounding: In terms of expected rebounds, Mizzou averages about one more offensive rebound per game than last year. Meanwhile, they give up about two more.
Here are this year's individual stats.
| Player | AdjGS* | GS/Min | Line |
| Laurence Bowers | 14.1 | 0.66 | 10.5 PPG, 6.3 RPG, 1.7 BPG, 1.1 APG, 1.1 SPG |
| Zaire Taylor | 10.2 | 0.37 | 7.9 PPG, 2.9 RPG, 3.6 APG, 1.9 SPG |
| Marcus Denmon | 9.8 | 0.49 | 11.2 PPG, 2.6 RPG, 0.7 APG, 1.0 SPG |
| Keith Ramsey | 9.0 | 0.32 | 5.6 PPG, 6.3 RPG, 1.3 APG, 1.5 SPG, 1.2 BPG, 2.1 TOPG |
| Kim English | 8.7 | 0.35 | 13.4 PPG, 3.8 RPG, 0.8 APG, 1.4 SPG, 2.3 TOPG |
| J.T. Tiller | 8.2 | 0.32 | 9.6 PPG, 2.8 RPG, 3.4 APG, 1.5 SPG, 2.6 TOPG |
| Mike Dixon | 5.9 | 0.37 | 7.5 PPG, 1.0 RPG, 1.6 APG |
| Justin Safford | 5.7 | 0.28 | 8.1 PPG, 3.0 RPG, 0.8 APG |
| Tyler Stone | 2.6 | 0.98 | 8 minutes |
| Miguel Paul | 0.9 | 0.10 | 1.2 PPG, 0.3 RPG, 1.6 APG |
| John Underwood | 0.8 | 0.39 | 6 minutes |
| Jarrett Sutton | 0.8 | 0.42 | 4 minutes |
| Steve Moore | 0.6 | 0.07 | 0.5 PPG, 1.4 RPG, 0.5 APG |
Let's look at position stats, using the GS/Min measure:
Point Guards
- 2008-09: Zaire Taylor 0.35/min, Miguel Paul 0.06
- 2009-10: Zaire Taylor 0.37/min, Mike Dixon 0.37, Miguel Paul 0.10
- Advantage: 2009-10
Shooting Guards
- 2008-09: J.T. Tiller 0.43/min, Marcus Denmon 0.37
- 2009-10: J.T. Tiller 0.32/min, Marcus Denmon 0.49
- Advantage: 2008-09 (because Tiller averages more minutes)
Small Forwards
- 2008-09: Kim English 0.48, Goose Lawrence 0.20
- 2009-10: Kim English 0.35
- Advantage: Push (Kimmeh is worse this year, but Goose was a major drag on the numbers until later in the season)
Bigs
- 2008-09: DeMarre Carroll 0.52, Leo Lyons 0.56, Keith Ramsey 0.42, Justin Safford 0.29, Laurence Bowers 0.65, Steve Moore 0.02
- 2009-10: Keith Ramsey 0.32, Laurence Bowers 0.66, Justin Safford 0.28, Steve Moore 0.07, Tyler Stone 0.98, John Underwood 0.39
- Advantage: 2008-09 (Bowers is doing his best, but Ramsey simply doesn't bring the offense that Carroll/Lyons did ... and how fascinating is it that the bigs' numbers barely changed from last year? Bowers and Safford are exactly the same, while Ramsey is the only one who has changed in any significant amount)
Compared with last year, Mizzou is better at the point guard position thanks to Mike Dixon's contribution (Zaire Taylor has produced at roughly the same level), worse at shooting guard (J.T. is simply turning the ball over too much, while Denmon is negating some of that with his own improvement), about the same at small forward (it really wasn't a strength last year either), better at the Big #1 spot (Bowers is actually outplaying DeMarre ... think about that), and worse at Big #2, #3, etc. Their three biggest weaknesses as compared to last year: 1) 2-point shooting, 2) turnovers committed, and 3) defensive rebounding. Despite the recent slump, they are a better 3-point and free throw shooting team, and they are actually forcing more turnovers and grabbing more offensive rebounds than last year.
(You could also make the case that "leadership" would be weakness #4 -- nobody led by example better than DeMarre -- but since there's really no way to measure that, I'll just float it out there, then go back to focusing on what the numbers tell us.)
Now, there is some good news here amid the weaknesses. First, the level at which Mizzou has shot 2-pointers in recent games is almost unsustainably bad, and it is hurting their overall numbers. It will almost certainly improve, at least marginally. Plus, the defensive rebounding has already begun to improve -- against Illinois, Georgia and their three Big 12 opponents, they have more or less broken even on the boards, and their numbers are suffering mostly because of how bad they started the season.
The biggest question mark in terms of whether things can improve comes in the form of turnovers committed. Ramsey turns the ball over as much as Lyons or Carroll did, only he comes without the offensive upside. But he is also one of the primary reasons Mizzou is forcing one more turnover per game. In other words, he is what he is. But J.T. Tiller and Kim English (and, in fewer minutes, Miguel Paul) are all averaging 0.14 turnovers per minute in conference play, and they simply must get better and make better decisions with the ball. If they do, the ceiling is still pretty high for this team even though they are indeed suffering from the lack of another interior scorer (as we figured they would this year). If they don't, then there are plenty of good defenses left on the schedule to make them pay. You can't press if you're not only not scoring, but not even getting off a shot, and if Mizzou can't press, they can't win at a high rate. Bring it, J.T. and Kimmeh.
It's strange, really. Thanks to Bowers' box score-filling ability, we actually don't miss DeMarre Carroll that much. Who do we miss the most? Leo Lyons ... and last year's J.T. Tiller.
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Comments
I can't see that photo of DeMarre...
… and not think of The Dagger:
Hey ball. I see you there. And I know you see me. So what are you going to do, Ballie? Do you mind if I call you Ballie, Ballie? (Giggles.) You’re cute.
Do you think I’m cute, Ballie? Yeah? You do? Yeah? Then don’t just roll out of bounds, silly. [Turns serious.] Come over here, instead. We could make a … great team. DeMarre is waiting, baby.
I guess I am confused on BCI
you said:
Thanks mostly to the extra steals allowed, Mizzou is a decent amount worse this year. Their opponents are a hair worse as well.
But I see us with just about 2 assists fewer per game (perhaps proof the offense does not work quite as smoothly and effectively as it did last year) and almost 2 turnovers MORE per game than last year. As for steals allowed, I only see just over 1 more allowed per game. I guess I am missing the leap where 1.2 more steals per game on our opponents’ end works out to be 1.8 more turnovers per game and 1.9 fewer assists per game on our end.
"Write a wise saying and your name will live forever." - Anonymous
Rock M Nation
Poor wording
I intended to mention turnovers, but emphasize the steals within the added turnovers (since steals are much worse than other turnovers, leading to the higher likelihood of an easier shot), but instead only mentioned steals. As in, “Not only are we turning the ball over, but we’re giving opponents more easy opportunities because of the type of turnovers we’re committing.”
Rock M Nation
Thrust nunchuk upward!
(I went ahead and removed the first part of the offending sentence.)
Rock M Nation
Thrust nunchuk upward!
I would disagree
I don’t think it’s fair to compare Bowers to Demarre for two reasons 1) The leadership thing you mentioned (and I’m not big on heavily weighing intangibles) and 2) Bowers is awesome, I love Bowers, but he doesn’t have the defensive intensity (hell the intensity in general) that Carroll had, I mean, who could? I think that the player we’re missing most IS Demarre Carroll, because of the intensity that is missing on the court w/o him, he could will teams back into the game and put his foot on the throat of another team better than anyone else that was on that team.
Bowers best compares to Lyons IMO, we are still missing Demarre, or any kind of raw, unnatural, slightly disturbing, intensity
i'm not disagreeing with your post
but you say this:
and I’m not big on heavily weighing intangibles
and then your whole second point is doing the same thing that you just mentioned you weren’t a big fan of.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 17, 2010 4:28 PM CST up reply actions
yeah but I think it's impossible to talk DeMarre without talking intangibles.
though you’re right that sentence doesn’t really fit there
Great Oden's Raven I love Mike "The Predator" Dixon!
I took it to be just
pre-softening the stance a little. “Yeah, I know you can overrate this stuff, but…”
Honestly...
…in terms of defense and intensity, I think Ramsey brings 80% of what DeMarre did…the one quality of DeMarre’s that Ramsey is missing the most, I think, is the 17-foot jumper. If we had another true inside-outside threat (we might if Safford gets dialed in, but he hasn’t been much this year), then I think our 2PT% would go up, not only because we’d have another jumper in the arsenal, but because people would actually have to pay attention to Ramsey more than 6 feet away from the hoop, and the paint might not get quite as packed in.
Rock M Nation
Thrust nunchuk upward!
Boy do I love RMN
it’s ridiculous that we’re able to read analysis like this on Mizzou athletics with such regularity.
Thank you Bill.
by Transmogrified Tiger on Jan 18, 2010 12:20 AM CST reply actions

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