MIZZOUEXPANSIONAPALOOZA 2010™: The Big 12 Inches Closer to Death
First things first: no, Kansas and Missouri have not been offered by the Mountain West. No, tonight's curators meeting isn't about considering a Mountain West offer. Reading comprehension is a good thing. Yes, Mizzou and Kansas could end up in the Mountain West, but we are weeks or months away from that scenario coming to fruition.
Really, not a ton went on yesterday in the world of conference realignment -- just some commissioner visits and rumors. But I think we can say that the odds seemed to shift for at least a couple of the conferences on Mizzou's list of possibilities.
Big 12
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Reading Material:
-- Tulsa World: Pac-10 commissioner visiting OU, OSU, Texas, Texas Tech and Texas A&M this weekend
-- SI.com (Andy Staples): Reading into Oklahoma's meeting with Pac-10
-- Burnt Orange Nation: What Is Texas A&M Thinking?
-- Team Speed Kills: Texas A&M to the SEC Goes Mainstream
-- Dr. Saturday: SEC bid divides A&M, heightens prospects of Aggie-Longhorn split
-- College Football Talk: SEC realizes 'Horns, Sooners likely a pipedream
-- Daily Oklahoman: Pac-10 commissioner Larry Scott meets with OU, OSU officials
-- Daily Oklahoman (That Fruity Guy): There's no saving the Big 12
-- Daily Oklahoman: Expenses and revenues for potential Pac-10/Big 12 merged superconference
-- Mountain West Connection: Utah to Pac-10 Monday?
-- KC Star: Officials from five Big 12 schools confer by phone on conference's future
Yes, the Big 12 could still survive. Technically A&M's AD said that he would still like to keep the conference together, and we've read that sentiment being expressed by most of the conference's teams at some point in the last couple of days. But ... pretend you are Texas A&M for a second. Right now you are being wooed by the Pac-10 (soon to be Pac-16) and potentially the SEC. If saving the Big 12 came down to your vote, do you honestly think you would choose to stay in the Big 12 or go off to the land of either the country's first mega-conference (maintaining your true, long-term rivalries) ... or heading to the strongest conference in college football? You're probably going to leave. And while everybody is saying the right things (sometimes), with each day that passes, the Big 12's hopes of survival dim. Until it dies, it is still a possibility for Mizzou's future ... but it might not be a possibility for more than another day or two.
(And if you really want to know why the Big 12 can't survive, the esteemed Senator Blutarsky has the answer.)
Big Ten
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Reading Material:
-- Chicago Tribune: Maryland athletic director says no contact with Big Ten
-- Post-Dispatch (Bernie Miklasz): MU could appeal to super conferences
I think it's safe to say that there will not be much going on with the Big Ten until the Pac-10 makes its move. At that point, you might see acceleration from the Big Ten, but it wouldn't surprise me if the SEC actually started to make its move before Jim Delany and crew at this point. Other than the simple fact that the Big Ten is probably going to want its roster in place for the 2011-12 academic year (so it would be a good idea if everything were in place by the fall of 2010), there is not much need for Delany to rush things. There is the potential risk that waiting would allow the Big East to become aggressive and not only save itself but improve its standing -- if the Big Ten wants any teams associated with the Big East or Big 12 leftovers that could end up in the Big East, then they can't wait forever.
Big East
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Reading Material:
-- Bring On The Cats: Why Go West When You Can Go East?
-- Washington Examiner: The Big East will listen to all schools who want membership
I love the headline of that second article, by the way. Fordham? Missouri State? UW-Eau Claire? Now's your chance! The Big East is listening!!
Right now, the "Big 12 leftovers to Big East?" movement has not picked up steam. But in a world where ESPN will write a 'duh' article like "Mountain West interested in Kansas and Missouri," it's only a matter of time. As I said yesterday, this is more realistic than some people might think, simply because the Big East wants to survive. And if Dan Beebe and Larry Scott have proven anything over the last month or two (or decade), it's that you have to be aggressive if you want to guarantee survival. Beebe was not, and he's just about out of a job. Scott has been more aggressive than anybody expected, and it could work out wonderfully for him.
By the way, do click on the BOTC link above. It's a logical look at the benefits of the Big East making this move ... and it's also hilarious to see that more readers chose the Mountain West as the preference instead of the Big 12. Sad and funny, all at the same time.
SEC
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Reading Material:
-- Roll 'Bama Roll: SEC Says No to Expansion?
-- GatorBait.net: Breaking down the expansion possibilities
No possibility seemed more absurd to me three days ago, and yet it continues to pick up steam. Rumor has it that if the SEC is going to expand, they want to do it outside of their current footprint. When all is said and done, I'm not sure this will be the case. But if it is, then their options are not tremendously widespread.
Let's think about the states that are both a) below the Mason-Dixon line and b) not currently occupied by an SEC team. Basically, you've got Kansas, Texas, Missouri, North Carolina, Virginia and West Virginia. Feasible FBS teams from those states: Texas A&M (assuming Texas is off the list), Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Duke, North Carolina, Virginia, Virginia Tech and West Virginia. Not exactly a murderer's row in terms of home runs, but if you're legitimately thinking about choosing four of these for expansion, then suddenly, and strangely, Mizzou becomes a reasonably viable option.
A&M is probably at the top of that list just because of their fanbase and potential, and Virginia Tech has the best football program (though evidently the concern is that if VT comes, UVa has to come, which apparently doesn't appeal to them much). The addition of Duke and North Carolina would be wonderfully creative -- suddenly the SEC would have three of the nation's premier basketball schools -- but there's nothing saying those schools are even remotely interested. It's pretty clear that the ACC fits their culture to a T, and if Maryland really is rolling their eyes at the thought of a Big Ten invite because they love the ACC, then it's safe to say that Duke and UNC are probably very happy with their conference as well.
So here's my question for today: how do you think Mizzou fans would handle SEC membership? It would be a massive celebration at first, and justifiably so -- they wanted the Big Ten, and instead got the #1 football conference in the country. The road trips would be ehhhhhhpic. The number of big-time opponents coming to Faurot Field would lead to wonderful attendance and a big-time atmosphere. Of course. But ... it would also mean that some really good Mizzou teams would have a ceiling of about 8-4 or 9-3. And how do you think Mizzou fans would handle that? How many "Screw you, Pinkel!!!" shouts do you think we'd be hearing from the crowd in that scenario?
How much of a difference would an SEC schedule make in Mizzou's record? Let's imagine how the last few years might have played out in the SEC. Let's say Missouri was in the SEC West with Alabama, Arkansas, Auburn, LSU, Mississippi State, Ole Miss and Texas A&M. We'll say that the SEC added VT and WVU to the east, just for fun. Here are some example schedules and, using my F/+ tool for games that didn't actually take place, some example results.
| 2005 | |
| Opponent | Result |
|
at Kansas Alabama |
L, -10 L, -18 6-6 (4-5) |
The SEC was in a bit of flux at this point in the decade (it hasn't always been as good as it has the last couple of seasons), and the level of quality wasn't nearly what it is now. That being the case, Mizzou could have gone ahead and sneaked out a minor bowl bid ... though obviously they wouldn't have been playing South Carolina in said bowl. Still, they get to a bowl, so Gary Pinkel probably doesn't get fired.
| 2006 | |
| Opponent | Result |
|
Kansas at Alabama |
W, +25 L, -10 7-5 (4-5) |
Another reasonably similar record (Mizzou went 8-4 that season in the Big 12) ... and the win over LSU sure would be fun.
| 2007 | |
| Opponent | Result |
|
vs Kansas Alabama |
W, +8 W, +20 11-1 (8-1) |
Obviously I was most curious about this season. Turns out, if Mizzou was able to function in tight games (they really didn't face many that season), they could have ended up in roughly the same situation. This would have been an interesting year, as the title game would have possibly been Missouri vs West Virginia (assuming LSU still lost twice ... which isn't a guaranteed assumption, obviously). In the SEC.
| 2008 | |
| Opponent | Result |
|
vs Kansas at Alabama |
L, -3 L, -12 8-4 (6-3) |
Because of brutal trips to Tuscaloosa, Blacksburg, and Oxford (to face a suddenly resurgent Ole Miss squad), this year just would not have gone as well. Here's where the SEC's depth really started to kick in.
| 2009 | |
| Opponent | Result |
|
vs Kansas Alabama |
W, +2 L, -33 5-7 (2-7) |
The rebuilding year that everybody expected for 2009 would have actually come to fruition against this wretched slate. You can make the case that Auburn and Ole Miss weren't good enough to win at Faurot this year, I guess, but the numbers disagree.
Basically, the good years could still be really good, but the leaner years would almost certainly be worse. And if the ridiculous screaming for the heads of Pinkel and (moreso) Yost/Steckel were bad in the real 2009, it's hard to even imagine what would have happened at 5-7.
In other words, the SEC could be the greatest and worst thing to happen to Mizzou football.
Mountain West
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Reading Material:
-- ESPN.com: Mountain West Eyes KU, Mizzou
The Mountain West is doing a good job of lining itself up to benefit as significantly as possible from realignment, and I can't blame them for that. But they're going to have to wait a while.
Conference USA
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No.
---
So basically the main thing that happened yesterday was the Big 12's death becoming slightly more imminent and the prospects of the SEC somehow becoming slightly more likely. If I were to place odds on any of these conferences, I think the most likely scenario would still only have about a 30% chance of happening. There really isn't a leader right now ... which is just amazing. Aside from shifts in the late-1920s and mid-1990s, Missouri has been in roughly the same conference for more than a century ... and now we have absolutely no idea where they could be as soon as 2011.
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Comments
I think the arrows will outlive this whole mess.
The sleeper has awoken. . .awakened. . .he woke up.
by SleepyFloyd7 on Jun 13, 2010 10:45 AM CDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
So...
If the ACC is pretty stable and if the Big East can grab Memphis and the Forgotten Four and keep their own Big Ten targets from bolting and ensure that Notre Dame can stay football independent, then that means that Jim Delany goes from being Mr. Burns to Abe Simpson. Nice.
All this Big East talk . . .
is stealing the thunder from the fantastically awesome and earth-shaking post I have planned for tomorrow. Maybe I’ll save the effort and say “me, too.”
by Michael Atchison on Jun 13, 2010 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Sorry, I think too much
Anyway, I’m still not sold on Mizzou to the SEC, but the Big East scenario got me thinking that the SEC could send a shot across the bow by grabbing Mizzou and blocking the Big Ten’s westward expansion and denying them the $18.5 million the BTN would make from Mizzou. It’s kind of tawdry to be used that way, but at this point, I wouldn’t put anything past any of these guys.
Hey, some of us . . .
. . . are looking forward to that post. Bring it regardless – deep thinking has a longer shelf life than simple rumors, and will stand the test of time, regardless the final outcome of all this mess.
As a resident of the Daytona Beach area...
I agree…Mizzou vs Florida at the swamp. May not have the outcome I would like, but I would likely get to go.
The MWC is better than people realize
First of all, the MWC is only a non-BCS conference in name only. Now that Boise St will be joining th fold in 2011 and their record counts towards what the MWC has done when deciding who gets an auto bid, the MWC has sent a team almost every year. And those teams have done a lot better in BCS bowl games (4-1) than just about any other conference. Does anyone really think the MWC isn’t a better football conference than the Big East? And what about basketball? The MWC sent 4 of their 9 teams to the tourney last season and if Mizzou and either KU or KSU had been members than they would have sent 6. That’s better than the 2 teams the Pac-10 sent, the 4 teams the SEC sent, and the 5 teams the Big 10 sent. The Big East is still a better basketball conference but the gap isn’t as big as people seem to think.
Don't trust this guy. He lies.
The difference is money and TV.
You’re absolutely right that an expanded MWC would be fun and super competitive. The problem is that the markets involved with the Big East are much bigger and lend themselves to a much, much better TV deal. Plus, the potential recruiting benefits to being in the Big East are significant. The MWC is a 100x better option than the CUSA, but when you move beyond the product on the field and think about bank accounts (which do clearly matter), the Big East is still a better option for us.
Rock M Nation
I'm on Twitter! http://www.twitter.com/billconnelly1
This won't be considered in the decision making process,
but I imagine the Big East would be a better fit for Mizzou’s non-revenue sports than the MWC.
There's no doubt this is all about money
But isn’t the Big 10 looking to raid the Big East of some of their biggest markets? And if the SEC raids the ACC, won’t the ACC then turn around and do the same thing to the Big East to replace their losses? The Big East has been in survival mode for the last 10 years while the MWC, as the youngest conference in football, has been growing every year and will just get bigger once they become a BCS league. Not to mention the MWC was the first conference to start their own network, even before the Big 10. The Big East has yet to start a network and it’s not totally certain when or if they ever will. And if we’re looking just at markets where conferences have a presence without taking into consideration how many people in those markets actually watch them (for example, how many people in NY are really that excited about Rutgers football?) here’s the markets the MWC is currently in: San Diego, Dallas, Denver, SLC, Las Vegas, Albuquergue, Boise, plus whatever markets Mizzou, KU, and KSU would bring if the joined. Again, I think the difference isn’t as big as people think.
Don't trust this guy. He lies.
I love you Bill
And RMN. It’s not just someone’s opinion, but we get numbers to back it up. I feel a lot better than I did yesterday, so maybe that means the coping process has begun. Either way, lots more dominoes to fall in the next 72 hours. And beyond.
Thanks again for your analysis every day.
And THAT is the kind of hard-hitting analysis that I come here for.
"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010
I know some people touched on it yesterday
but SEC wouldn’t be too bad… in my hometown’s little corner of Missouri, as many people graduating HS went to Ole Miss as did Mizzou. The home-and-home was great! It’s not too much of a stretch, but then BD et al. need to continue focusing on academics. Not because the SEC is bad/worse at all, I was just banking on a Big 10/CIC invite to help out our standing.
The grove is a good enough reason alone to join the SEC.
"I'm pretty sure there's more to life than being really, really, ridiculously good looking. And I plan on finding out what that is."
At the grove
They “may not win every game,,,, but they never lose a party!!”
by Mizzoufarmer on Jun 13, 2010 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Mizzou's culture has always been an interesting mix...
…between midwest and southeast. I get the feeling 60% of the fanbase would consider the Big Ten the dream scenario, 40% the SEC.
Rock M Nation
I'm on Twitter! http://www.twitter.com/billconnelly1
If this played out like the civil war
then Mizzou would be in Big10. On another post the other day, someone mentioned that the South has some amazing metropolitan cities like ATL, NO, … I think it is all true, but I still think it will be a bit of a cultural clash. No offense to anyone, but I am just not into country music, NASCAR and church going.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
Northern Missouri is as bad a fit for the SEC...
… as Southern Missouri is for the Big Ten. The beauty and the curse of the state of Missouri is the tremendous difference in the people across the state. One of my favorite things about Mizzou is how heterogeneous the cultures/ideologies can be.
It amazes me how the major metro areas in MO all take on a bit of a
regional flavor: KS is west coast like, while STL has more of a blue collar east coast mentality, and Springfield definitely reminds me of the bible belt.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
STL has always reminded me more of "Chicago Lite" midwestern than eastern...
Rock M Nation
I'm on Twitter! http://www.twitter.com/billconnelly1
I always thought it was funny...
Even though they’re on the same latitudinal plane, I always considered KC to be southern and STL to be northern, culturally speaking.
Ever since all the white people fled
from STL City, the STL area has a distinctly segregated feel to it. All the silly STL county/St. Chuck county fiefdoms are where the church-going republicans live (and go to great pains to keep poor city dwellers from having mass transit access to their towns, but I digress), while STL city is… STL city. It makes the whole place feel icky, quite frankly, but I guess it’s more or less the story of any and every formerly industrial-powered metro area in the U.S. The fallow husk of STL City just makes me sad.
country music, NASCAR and church going...
have fans all over, not just in the south.
"I'm pretty sure there's more to life than being really, really, ridiculously good looking. And I plan on finding out what that is."
Not disagreeing at all
Just playing on stereotypes and my personal preference.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
Those F/+ scores for "What if SEC?"
actually makes me feel better no matter what happens.
Thanks RMN. For keeping me sane, and being probably one of the most sane sports blogs on the interwebs right now. Considering some are from schools that aren’t even in flux, and Mizzou is bouncing around like a pin ball, this says a lot.
Cheers to Bill, RPT, ghtd36 and all the other regular contributors and posters, to make this place be amazing, in this very exciting times.
Given enough velocity even a pig will fly
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jun 13, 2010 1:17 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
Rule 49. " Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Jun 13, 2010 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions

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