Rock M Roundtable!
by Bill C. on Jul 21, 2010 3:30 PM CDT
in Rock M Roundtable!
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I smell a mid-July rally! Maybe! All I know is...the questions are longer this time. That means they're better, right?
1. So the NCAA is throwing its weight around right now regarding the whole "sports agents paying college players" issue. They’ve hit the Pac-10 and are investigating schools in the ACC and SEC…
My question, then, is 3-fold:
a) Do you expect the NCAA to expand its investigation into a program in the Big 12?
b) If so, which program would you expect to be the likeliest target?
and, I know none of us want to think about something like this, but
c) Is there any chance Mizzou ends up a paof this investigation?
You know, assuming the NCAA decides to eradicate this whole issue once and for all and penalize every program with even a whiff of impropriety.
2. How do I convince my girlfriend to root for Mizzou Men's Basketball? She is a former college athlete (she played basketball for Wyoming when they won the NIT a couple years ago).
She refuses to support or even acknowledge that the team is good. In her mind, its just "create havoc, drive to the lane, fouls, and full court pressure that doesn’t work on big teams capable of preparing for it. They don’t have any real shooter (Kimmeh is not legit yet) and they don’t play ‘Team Basketball’ i.e. they play one-on-one a lot and rarely have a real half-court offense (just look at the games they lost in the last two NCAA tournaments)." She also does not have a high opinion of Mike Anderson’s recruiting.
Basically what I’m looking for is a clear argument that point-by-point outlines why she should change her mind and give MU Basketball a chance. This has been a main point of contention regarding sports in our relationship (she’s all for MU Football). Perhaps you could expand upon the subject and address other arguments against rooting for Mizzou. This would be a great post I could use to debate with her since my ability to argue basketball with her is underwhelming at best.
3. I just got done watching the first 3 seasons of 30 Rock on Netflix. Liz Lemon – Hot nerd, or hottest nerd?
4. What is your favorite war movie and why?
Michael Atchison: Going to be late to the party today.
ZouDave: Me too, bheading into a meeting right now
Bill C.: Beheading in a meeting??
ghtd36: A beheading in a meeting? Damn. Corporate America really is cutthroat.
ghtd36: Let's rock this.
1- Yes, I expect the NCAA to expand its investigation to the Big XII at some point. It's never been a matter of if; it's a matter of when. It's not like impropriety just stops at the border of Big XII country.
If I had to take a guess, I'd expect it to come down on someone like Oklahoma: prestigious program with a big-name coach that could feasibly take a substantial step backward in the coming years, while still maintaining the "NFL factory" visage.
And yes, Mizzou is absolutely in play. Fair or not, it's a school with a history of NCAA violations, so there's always going to be that red flag. That said, I think Mizzou earned some brownie points with the NCAA by being ahead of the curve on the whole setting-up-a-compliance-department thing after the Quinpocolypse.
2- First of all, tell your girlfriend that I said hello.
Now, on to the topic at hand. It seems to be a total non sequitur that your girlfriend who played women's basketball -- a sport that not only requires sound fundamentals, but whose game is almost solely based on sound fundamentals -- would fail to acknowledge one of the most fundamentally sound squads in the nation. It's a team built on defense; I don't think there's any questioning that. In a sport that has become as much about outscoring opponents as stopping them, Mizzou is an old school mentality team that prides itself on stopping the ball first and foremost.
As for the argument about the offense, she really couldn't contradict herself any more. They don't have any real shooter, yet they play one-on-one a lot? Then how do they score? I'm not going to disagree that they lack a true shooter; we all said last year that Mizzou was a scorer short.
But to say that they don't play "team basketball" would seem to indicate that they just run isolation constantly to the shooter they don't have, which couldn't be farther from the truth. Nine players averaged at least an assist a game last year for Mizzou. For national champion, play the game the right way, gritty, fundamentally sound, Coach K-tested, mother-approved Duke? Four players with an assist a game.
They drive the lane, sure, but everyone drives the lane. That's like saying, "God, I hate the Yankees; they bunt."
I'm not going to argue with her about recruiting; that's subjective.
Basically, my argument is that she's wrong. But do tell her that I said hello.
3. Ahem.
And she was on The freakin' Wire. QED.
4. Star Wars. Breathtaking visuals.
The Beef: Looks like I picked a hell of a week to be coaxed back into a roundtable…these questions go WELL beyond my attention span. So…the longer the question, the shorter my answer
#1a – yes
#1b – Oklahoma State
#1c – yes
#2 – Find a new girlfriend…clearly the one you have is dumb (about Anderson’s recruiting at least, and about her understanding of TEAM defense, as I am guessing she was evidently far too slow a player to grasp what it is Mizzou does). Yeah…that’s what you get for a long, drawn-out story about someone you are slumming with from a standpoint of basketball IQ.
#3 – Gonna go with hot nerd, though I still have occasional longing to see Fey back at the Weekend Update desk. Her cameo for the Betty White episode (as with most things in that episode) was great.
#4 – I will say Glory, but I am REALLY not a war movie person. Never seen Saving Private Ryan in its entirety, and never seen a single episode of anything HBO has done.
ZouDave: Typos FTW!
First, welcome back BEEF! Glad to see you back among us, making it happen. When's Baby Beef's debut?
1 - They sort of did already with kansas, and I wouldn't be surprised if they went back there again to "tie up loose ends" with some of the latest scandals. I don't think they'd target Texas because I think Texas is still considered pretty untouchable, but it's not out of the question.
There's always a chance your school can end up in an investigation, but with the two coaches we have running our major programs I say bring it on. We could have faced some problems with the whole text message thing from the basketball program within the last year and it couldn't have been less of a problem, because Mike Anderson runs a clean program. Gary Pinkel has never even had the appearance of impropriety to my knowledge, and he's such a stubborn and straight-arrowed person that I think he'd refuse to get involved in things that would get him in trouble simply because that's not how Don James did it.
2 - Just find a girlfriend that isn't retarded.
3 - Hot nerd. I'll have to look around for the hottest nerd, but I think I'm going to start with Danica McKellar:
4 - Wow, now that's just an awesome question. What qualifies a war movie? Are we talking wars that the USA was involved in, or can we go back to movies like Spartacus or Braveheart? Or something more fictional like Gladiator, that is more representative of the time as opposed to portraying real events?
If I can say "Band of Brothers" as my answer, then that's my answer. It's not a movie, but it's the length of like 3 movies and it's certainly movie quality. But if we're just talking about actual theater release movies, answering the question literally...
Medieval-ish Wars - Braveheart
Revolutionary War - The Patriot (not sure I have much to choose from here)
US Civil War - Glory
World War I - All Quiet on the Western Front
World War II - Saving Private Ryan
Vietnam War - Full Metal Jacket or We Were Soldiers...can't call this one
Modern Wars - Blackhawk Down
Overall favorite movie from this list - Braveheart
ZouDave: Ok...I should have read Seth's response first before truly welcoming him back.
YOU'VE NEVER SEEN SAVING PRIVATE RYAN OR BAND OF BROTHERS?!?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!11111oneoneone!!!?????ZOMG?!
I.....I don't........I can't........it's.......you.........elephant.........what?
The Beef: I suppose in saying I am not a fan, it really means they don’t do anything for me. I’ve seen the opening of SPR, and the scene is impressive from the standpoint of its enormity, but it does nothing for me. The depiction of war does not cull the same feelings it does in many others, so it is not a genre I really spend any time in.
And to update the Roundtable…Baby The Beef is due is 6 short days…and the Tailgate Queen and I are literally down to the "any minute now" stage.
ZouDave: Well that just seems foreign as an idea to me, Beef, but I guess I'll have to just accept that explanation.
Best wishes to you and the Tailgate Queen and the soon to be little one! Will be praying for everyone to remain happy and healthy, can't wait to see pictures, and I know without asking that you guys will both be at full speed for the McNeese State home opener on 9/11/10!
The Beef: Consider it unpatriotic or unmanly or whatever…but I have little to no draw to the military and likely would come off as aloof to many regarding my feelings on those who defend Am’r’ca and our freedoms. Just is what it is, but it certainly seems to project to my movie tastes.
At this point, we plan to have the kid with us at the MU/ILL game as sort of a test run. Both my family and my in-laws will be joining us for the McNeese State game, and we will go from there. We realize our Friday nights in Como before a game are pretty much done, and it will make for a lot of loooooong Saturdays, but we are going to try to do the best we can. Some tailgates may just not start quite as early as they used to :-)
ZouDave: Well for me it's not about my patriotism or defending Am'r'ca or anything, but I do happen to love those kinds of action movies. Now, I also do have draws to the military (especially with The Captain as a father) so I'm sure that has more than helped shape my tastes for these things but I can be just as happy watching a war movie taking place in 10th century England as I can watching one about USA's fight against the Nazis. I love the conflict, I love the heroism, I love the action, I love the drama.
Band of Brothers is so much more than a war movie, though, because so little of the 10+ hours actually takes place on a battlefield. Getting to learn about the men of Easy Company is really a privilege more than anything else. Those men are American treasures, every one of them.
ghtd36: I can vouch for Band of Brothers. It's excellent.
The Beef: Agree to disagree on this one, as my saying any more will just further drive an already crappy Roundtable further down the drain
ZouDave: I don't agree to that!
Bill C.: I don't agree to your face.
ZouDave: Your brain's the one with the shell on it.
Bill C.: I'm rubber and you're glue?
ghtd36: And Beef, I'm not a parent. But I feel like I should offer you the same advice I read on the Internet once:
You only give the baby whiskey when they're teething.
The Beef: I appreciate the clarification, as I thought the whiskey was for me whilst the kid was teething
ZouDave: oh there's no limitation on when you can be administered whiskey. Unless you're doing the breastfeeding...
ghtd36: Allow me to offer the first derailment of this already swimming roundtable:
Go see Inception. Right now. Don't even finish this roundtable. Go right now. Quit your job if you must. It immediately vaulted into my top 5 ever.
ZouDave: You're not the only person who's had that opinion of the movie. I know nothing about the movie (which is the way I like it, I go in with zero expectations). I will try to see it this weekend, though. Is that acceptable?
ghtd36: That is acceptable. And really, I'm trying very hard to keep from overhyping the movie, because there's no way it can live up to the amount of hyperbole heaped upon it; I call it Napoleon Dynamite Syndrome.
Suffice to say that I believe you will enjoy it.
RPT: 1. Yes, investigations will absolutely expand to the Big 12's footprint, though I refuse to speculate on which program will be the target. Like ghtd said, we're not immune here either. No matter how well a program is run, it's sickening how easy it is for a player to do something stupid like attending an agent's party (Bama's Marcel Dareus) or even doing some that seems illegal then lying about it (Dez Bryant). That's why, even though I agree with ZouDave's sentiments about Pinkel and the way the program is run, I think it's really out of everyone's hands but the agents and the players.
2. A former women's basketball player who does not appreciate watching Mizzou's brand of basketball tells me everything I need to know about women's basketball.
But in all seriousness, I understand people that don't appreciate the aesthetic value of Mizzou basketball. It's blue collar basketball that'll leave you bruised. It's not a fundamentals training video and it's not five white guys playing the Princeton offense on black and white film setting up set shots. Here's the thing though: Mizzou's style is an equalizer. Some systems, especially ones that might be more pleasing to the eye, require supreme talent. You can label the Fastest 40 Minutes a gimmick if you want. I'd rather have a gimmick that wins than a "normal" system tha produces middling results.
3. Olivia Munn in this conversation?
4. I'll defer to others on this one.
Doug: Really? You had to go for the longest questions?
1 - I think with the NCAA anything is possible. They have all the money and the vast majority of the power. I also think the NCAA is more than a little pissed off with the BCS at the moment, and any chance to tag a traditional football power like USC or Florida, and they will jump at the chance.
Eventually, someone in the Big 12 will be investigated, it's only a matter of time. And, the most likely candidates in my mind, are Oklahoma and Texas. Big programs, lots of boosters, lots of money, and plenty that can go on under the table, which Oklahoma has already proved once recently.
And, yes, Missouri could become the target, but thankfully for the Tigers, they pumped a bunch of money into regulation oversight, just like KU did. I'm fairly certain the NCAA does not care if a school is getting dicked out of money by it's own employees. That's why I would put it at a much higher probability that the NCAA starts sniffing around in Manhattan before Lawrence or Columbia.
2 - Has Mrs. Bill C. met your "girlfriend" yet?
I do see where she's coming from. At times, the Tigers can play a beautiful sort of up-tempo game, raining in threes, running the break, forcing turnovers. But, when they come up against a more talented team, it turns into an absolute nightmare on the court. Multiple fouls, called and uncalled, shot-clock draining possessions, and 16 point first halves. Just really everything you hate about Big 10 basketball on display.
3 - Yeah, I'll have to second the nomination of Danica McKellar.
4 - I do prefer Band of Brothers, and really want to see The Pacific when it comes out on DVD. But, for my money, Black Hawk Down is an unbelievable representation of the modern battlefield.
ZouDave: The best endorsement I ever heard on Blackhawk Down came from one of my closest friends, whom I grew up with, that went into the Air Force out of high school and is still in today. He's been deployed 10 times in his now 16 years in, been in Iraq 3 times, been in Bosnia, been in Korea, etc. He told me he watched the movie once and will never watch it again, because it was too real.
That's worth noting.
Bill C.: I have to veto Olivia Munn. She's hot, but I get the impression she has marketed herself toward nerds more than she actually IS a nerd...VETO.
Michael Atchison: 1. This is a nearly impossible question to answer. I think people fundamentally misunderstand the way that NCAA enforcement works. They operate with a relatively small staff that oversees hundreds of institutions (there are 300+ Division One basketball programs, and lots of DII and DIII schools). Virtually every investigation starts with a source outside the infractions staff, be it self-reporting by a school, a tip from another program or person, or a news story. Do I expect a Big 12 program to be investigated at some point in the future? Sure, I can all but guarantee it. But I can’t tell you which school or how it will come about. If you want odds, look at two things: (1) How other schools feel about a particular coach (I would imagine that Scott Drew is the most likely guy to get ratted out by another program), and (2) How much fan intensity there is around a program. If a lot of people care fanatically about a particular football or basketball team, the odds increase that someone is going to cross a line. Finally, is there any chance that Missouri ends up as part of investigation? Our history tells us that there’s always a chance, but I do feel good about the people in charge of the revenue programs. I’d be very surprised to find Mizzou at the heart of any significant scandal in the short term.
2. I think other people have answered this question pretty sufficiently. Clearly, this relationship can’t last. It’s OK for a significant other to be indifferent to Mizzou basketball, but to be antagonistic is a deal-breaker. A few other thoughts: If Mike Anderson can’t recruit, he apparently has inferior talent. And if he has inferior talent, and they don’t play team basketball, the only explanation for all the games they win must be sorcery. Also, if ranking at the top nationally in assists and A:TO doesn’t convince her that they play team basketball, she doesn’t want to be convinced. As for their style not working on big teams capable of preparing for it, I suppose I would refer her to the coaches at Kansas, Kansas State, Texas, Oklahoma State, Memphis, Illinois, Marquette, Clemson and others who have lost to the Tigers in the past couple of years.
Finally, there are no gimmicks. There are rules. You play within them. The funniest thing I ever hear in sports is "yeah, they beat us, but they had to use that crazy style to do it." That’s what the British said about the Yanks in the Revolution.
3. Hottest nerd. I want to go to there.
4. I don’t know if it’s my favorite, but I’ve never been as emotionally shattered walking out of a movie theater as I was after I saw Platoon.
ghtd36: You know what's going to be fun?
Football season, and the subsequent alcohol abuse that comes with it.
/will attempt to black out at Mizzou-Illinois game
RPT: Sobriety:
Bill C.: Since I haven't responded to much yet, I'll just say that I did see Saving Private Ryan in the theater...a) my mom was crying 90 seconds into the movie, b) I thought it was great, and c) I don't ever feel the need to see it again.
The biggest issue with the agents thing is, as has been said here, a lot of it is completely out of coaches' control. A lot of it is relying on the players themselves to avoid these things, and...well...20-year old males are not usually the best decision-makers on the planet.
I do love, though, that Nick Saban is ALL SORTS OF PISSED OFF about this (now that it might have snagged one of his players too)...says agents should be banned from even scouting players and they should do it all at the Combine. Good luck getting them out of the building, of course, but if Saban's railing on it, there might actually be a change...
ZouDave: Once again, Atch pulls out the best line of the discussion re: Brits vs Yanks. Atch, you really ought to consider a future in writing. Not sure if that's something that interests you or not but you may be missing some opportunities there.
It is always crazy to me when fans/teams complain that they were beaten by a "system". No, you were beaten by a team that (as Atch so perfectly put it) was playing the game completely within the rules. How odd that people will say Mizzou beats you with a gimmicky system (both in football and basketball) but yet when Mizzou lost to Navy in the Bowl Game last year it wasn't that we were beaten by a "system", it was just simply that we got beat and therefore sucked. Isn't the Triple Option just as much a system as the Spread? Is the only thing that's not a "system" the kind of football they play in the Big Ten? Because if so, Nebraska will be right at home I guess.
(Two hours later...)
The Beef: So this is what I have been missing?
ghtd36: RPT killed a guy.
RPT: No, Beef. You have it backwards. You're what the Roundtable's been missing.
Now save this one and we'll call it square.
The Beef: Well let’s be honest here…I bring very little to the table on these to begin with.
I don’t have the stats like Bill C
I don’t have the pop culture like…well…just about anyone.
I don’t have the music/reading love like some.
I don’t have the movie taste of most (already covered)
In the end, all I can do is this…
ghtd36: Thank you for your courage, Beef.
The Beef: I am just a man with very little to do on his last day in the office for awhile
(30 minutes later...)
Bill C.: In other news...SWEET MERCIFUL CRAP AM I TIRED OF 90s > RAIN > 90s > RAIN > 90s ... this is the most miserable summer I can remember since the last one I spent in DC ...
ghtd36: 102-degree-every-day Dallas waves.
Bill C.: I'll take 102 degrees and half the humidity. Sign me up.
(An hour later...)
ZouDave: I just got back from running 30 100-meter wind sprints in this heat, so blow me where the pampers is!
The Beef: Why were 30 different guys chasing you over short distances?
ZouDave: because I'm that damn awesome
Michael Atchison: It was 15 different guys, and they had to rest in the middle.
ghtd36: Dave, that's the worst case of scoreboarding I've ever seen.
OOH LOOK AT ME! I RAN A LOT ON MY OWN VOLITION IN THE HEAT! LOOK HOW AWESOME I AM!
In related news, I just ate another 100-calorie pack of Cheez-Its in the air conditioning. Suck it.
(An hour later...)
RPT: MEANWHILE IN WASHINGTON DC:
My office has been without power for three hours. And you know that DC heat Bill was referencing?
Yep, it's been a fun afternoon here just outside our nation's capital.
Michael Atchison: Dude gets his dream internship and bitches about the heat.
The Beef: Next he is going to tell us how he cant take all the attractive women in the office complaining about their shirts sticking to their sweating bodies
ghtd36: For his next act, RPT will complain that the clouds are too puffy.
Michael Atchison: Reminds me of the big leaguers complaining about the All-Star game being in Kansas City. "Sure, I make $12 million a year and people worship me, but on one Monday in July 2012, I’m going to be subjected to the humiliation of having to drink and hit on hot women in a bar on the Country Club Plaza."
RPT: I think Beef overestimates the female:male ratio at an office housing a professional sports franchise.
But, point/meme well taken. Rabble rabble.
ghtd36: RPT: "Gaaaah, this beer is WAY too cold."
ZouDave: This reminds me of one of my favorite Chandler Bing quotes from friends:
"Oh, I know, this must be so hard. 'Oh no, two women love me. They're both gorgeous and sexy. My wallet's too small for my fifties AND MY DIAMOND SHOES ARE TOO TIGHT!' "
RPT: Dave just quoted FRIENDS?
Can someone un-lame the Roundtable?
The Beef:
Bill C.: I was going to make an "And boom goes the dynamite" reference here, but I felt it might be misinterpreted.
ZouDave: $20 says Atch has no idea who that is
Michael Atchison: Is "random girl on the internet" not right?
ZouDave: it's a very specific girl, both on the internet and in many adult movies
Michael Atchison: Your sister?
Bill C.: AND BOOM GOES THE DYNAMITE.
ghtd36: MY GOD HURRY PUBLISH BEFORE DAVE HAS A REBUTTAL.
ZouDave:
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Comments
MUTIGERS86 What did you learn today?
I learned that Mizzou basketball wins because of sorcery.
Annoying You Since 1986
You rallied!
Whoever said, 'It's not whether you win or lose that counts,' probably lost.
Martina Navratilova
by tigers and chiefs fan on Jul 21, 2010 3:51 PM CDT reply actions
Yeah, EPIC rally...
Coming in August: Rock M Nation's 2010 Missouri Football Preview!!!
Rock M Nation
I'm on Twitter! http://www.twitter.com/billconnelly1
How about Felicia Day?
from The Guild and Dr. Horrible?
The sleeper has awoken. . .awakened. . .he woke up.
by SleepyFloyd7 on Jul 21, 2010 3:53 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Saw Dr. Horrible. If she didn't have red hair, she'd do nothing for me
I am a HUGE fan of Tina Fey’s (hence the posing of the question), but have had a thing for Danica McKellar for so long that I forget about her.
Sorcery is so passe
Mizzou basketball is getting with the times and winning with alchemy.
i know big monday was just announced
but when does the rest of the conference schedule come out? (and the non, for that matter)
CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS-2010 STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS!
Last season's was released the 3rd week of August.
Per “The Fastest 40 Blog”, from last Thursday,
there are still a couple of games Missouri is working on
Amen on the systems thing
Then again, I guess I just like tactical innovation. I like to watch games from the coach’s eye, so I love it when a new tactic allows a coach to get results completely out of proportion to the talent on the squad.
In completely unrelated news, I’ve spent 30 hours since the World Cup ended leading the Seattle Sounders to the US Open Cup, Supporter’s Trophy, and MLS Cup in Football Manager 2010.
The crappy thing about branding someone a "system QB" is that it's nearly impossible to prove otherwise
especially in college. Saying that QB1 is a “system QB” essentially means that they put up good numbers/wins because of the system, whether that be the supporting cast or the offensive style.
The only ways to prove that tag wrong is to put a crappy QB in his place (which you don’t really know until that QB has been proven to be crappy in a different system) and see if they thrive in the system OR put that QB in another system and see if they succeed. The real kicker with this is that unless you have a good supporting cast, even a great QB could fail in ANY system.
"The real kicker with this is that unless you have a good supporting cast, even a great QB could fail in ANY system."
Except Brett Favre. Brett Favre never fails. Brett Favre.
Skol Vikings!
Elke ware zoon, zo blij van harte / Hemels boven ons zijn blauw / Er is een geest zo diep binnen ons / Oud Missouri dit is voor jou / Waneer de band het Tijger oorlogslied speelt / En wanneer de strijd over is / We zullen stampen, stampen, stampen, rond de kolommen / Met een kreet voor oud Mizzou!
by Dutch Missourian on Jul 21, 2010 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh goodness, FM 2010
I want to take it behind the middle school and get it pregnant.
The tactical part of that game is phenomenal, being able to basically test run any combination of formations and philosophies is just too much fun for me. Also the crushing realism of Man City bidding $40 million for any $9 million youngster that you so desperately want to save your team from relegation.
And as a huge US soccer fan, does it make me a bad person to want Donovan to jump to a ‘real’ league? This coming from someone who still ranks Digital Takawira’s goal in the Wiz’s (not wizards god dammit) first ever game as one of his top 10 sports moments.
what's up lionsden
long time no see
FM2010 is awesome. I can’t help but go out and sign USA players for whatever EPL team I take control of. The first version of FM that I ever played, I believe 07, I took over Aston Villa and had Eddie Johnson (at that time he was supposed to be the next awesome something) at forward, Donovan and Dempsey in the midfield, Gooch and Bocanegra defending and young Freddy Adu on the reserve team. Once I finally got all of them, probably by the 2009 season, I got Aston Villa into the Champions League and we made the semifinals winning our quarterfinal leg on PKs and it was Dempsey that hit the game winner. I was playing that game at like 3am and I was jumping up and down and screaming at my computer as if it had happened in real life.
Dork? Yes. That was never in question. But it was still awesome. I wish there was an American Football equivalent to that game. Baseball has OOTP, and football once had Front Office Football but it hasn’t been updated in so long that it doesn’t count anymore.
Hey there
I am always reading, but rarely commenting.
I am amazed you got that team into Champions League, I do exactly the same thing…even though the Galaxy gouged me pretty hard on Donovan. And get just way too excited over my teams results too. Screamed at my computer when Man City, my least favorite EPL team by far, ruined Hull’s best performance ever with a late equalizer and stoppage time winner in our FA cup quarterfinal run.
I picked Everton now so that I can afford non terrible players, and just became a mad professor with the formations and tactics. That part is so well done it is fascinating to see how things work (or fail spectacularly).
Nice roundtable today
2. Uhhhhh, I don’t quite get the logic there.
3. Zooey Deschanel
4. Copy and paste the Beef’s response more or less. I like most war films, Thin Red Line and Windtalkers being a few exceptions. Saving Private Ryan and We Were Soldiers are probably the ones I’ve watched the most.
Killing me won't bring back your goddamn honey!
by ratherfantastic on Jul 21, 2010 5:00 PM CDT reply actions
good roundtable this week, finally :)
first off +10000 for ghtd because inception totally is an incredible movie, its great. And I agree about the weather. My AC broke 2 weeks ago and just got fixed today.
Great Odin's Raven I love Mike "The Predator" Dixon!
1. Mizzou was scared straight after Snyderpocalypse, but they’ve also sent a lot of guys to the NFL the last few years, so who knows. I suspect Oklahoma would be the NCAA’s first target though, given their other problems.
2. 
3. Felicia Day. She didn’t have much to do in Dr. Horrible, but she’s fantastic in The Guild.
4. Saving Private Ryan
I was going to make a long rebuttal to the replies about #2
But I didn’t really see any effort given; perhaps this was the wrong forum or wrong post.
That being said, Tepper, RPT and Doug at least attempted responses, rather than ‘conjuring’ up to ad hominem verbal barbs.
It seems people attempting to fight mob mentality can still fallback to knee-jerk reactions when their team is criticized.
"You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent
I think you just have to understand.
That your question would require a lot of thought and effort, possibly even research, and this round table is the occasional email when people have a few minutes free while at work. Just don’t have the time to answer the question. So I think you were right when you said wrong forum.
Annoying You Since 1986
I realize that now
Perhaps I still planted the seed of an idea Inception-style that will result in a more in depth response somewhere down the line.
I know that I enjoy watching Mizzou basketball, but I am a bit of sports junkie and tend to allow my biases to cloud my objectivity which is why is can be difficult for me to rationally debate someone.
I don’t expect anything, it really was just a question that arose out of genuine conversation. I thought I’d give it a shot here where I come for much of my Mizzou fandom.
"You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent
I don't argue with people who refuse to even attempt to see a counterpoint...
and given that “She refuses to support or even acknowledge that the team is good,” where very simple and incontrovertible evidence exists to refute that, then she was not worth my time, and therefore not worth a response. And as much as you might not want to hear it, Atch brings up a VERY VERY good point about where your relationship is likely to end up. Take my word for it…relationships (mine being marriage) work simply because we share many of the same things. Not sharing then is one thing…but being adversarial about something is completely another.
Best of luck to you…sounds like you may need it.
Advocating for the "Spreadbone" since 2010
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Let me get this straight.
I came here with a question that arose out of a debate I had with my girlfriend; perhaps my wording was imprecise, perhaps my understanding of this forum was wrong, I may have misjudged some of the loyal contributors’ desire to take an opportunity to soundly refute a claim that can be made (ie. the WHOLE “system QB” or “gimmick defense”). I thought it was an opportunity to take a common misconception and turn it on its head, poking the holes in the flawed argument.
Forget my girlfriend and tackle a larger argument; why this style works and can work overcome more ‘traditional’ styles of play (the Princeton, strong post presence, and particularly experienced teams that play sound defense and are efficient offensively). Essentially, why this style can endure.
I may have been overzealous in saying that she “refuses to support or even acknowledge that the team is good.” She isn’t blind to results, but I think her main concern is the staying power of a program built around this style of play and the lack of preparation it creates for the players who move to other levels. She can acknowledge success, but I think she finds it hard to root for the style of play.
I took Atch’s comment about this being a deal-breaker as an ironic/sarcastic comment, maybe I misinterpreted him, but I certainly don’t think an inability to see eye to eye ABOUT BASKETBALL is going to doom my relationship. People do need to share some interests, but disagreeing about sports, a leisure experience, is not a prerequisite to a healthy relationship.
Taking my question and insulting my girlfriend by calling her retarded and suggesting she is dumb or ‘slow’ is fairly low. I get you don’t know me or and this is the internet so who cares, but you are insulting me, a fan, a student, a guy trying to draw more fans to a team that not too long ago was rocked by scandal. That’s counter-intuitive.
Much rabble is made here about bandwagon and uneducated fans (the fullback, expanding the stadium). Bad publicity also drives potential fans away (Stephon Hannah, Butterfield, Snyder). Alienating hometown fans is no way to draw those crowds in, that provincial mindset reflects poorly on the loyal fans who revile mob mentality. I thought the kind of supporters I saw on this site would embrace an opportunity to engage in a real sports debate and convert non-believers. Dismissing disagreement is tantamount to masquerading in perfection.
I for one, am in agreement about the recruiting aspect of Mike Anderson. Every time I see the coach he strikes me as friendly, dignified and driven, so far the players I have seen him recruit have demonstrated the same values. I enjoy rooting for players who can be respected and embraced by the community. I know my gf rooted strongly for players like Tiller when he was a freshman, Matt Lawrence, Justin Safford, Kim English, and newcomer Ricky Kreklow.
I will say I agree with her contention that Anderson’s system draws athletes inclined with a playground flash and hone’s them into a scrappy defensive mindset; they just don’t appear to evolve offensively into threats when their forte is checked. I, for one, hope that our recent recruiting class of Ratliffe, Green and Mitchell, will go a long way toward solidifying our inside presence to balance our perimeter talent. If they can reliably post, rebound and run the floor, I think we have a dynamic, deep team that can compete with any team in the country, seriously.
MY humble opinion is that if Anderson can continue to attract these high-profile athletes, he can (re)establish a tradition of championship-level basketball that will draw the interest of players who would normally look no further than their backyard loyalties. That talent would allow for a flexibility in play that would allow Mizzou to perennially contend.
"You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent
I think the relationship advice...
And not that its okay in any way, is just based on their experience. I know the Beef and his wife love mizzou football, ie tailgate queen, and the experience they share as a fan is a good part of their relationship. To them, maybe if they didn’t have that, it wouldn’t work for them. But it doesn’t mean that your relationship doesn’t have something else that you share that fills that void. Best of luck to ya.
Annoying You Since 1986
Really, I think it just has to do with...
…the fact that everybody is punchy, and the roundtable needed a shot in the arm, so everybody was acting accordingly.
Coming in August: Rock M Nation's 2010 Missouri Football Preview!!!
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And by the way...
…we compare Dave’s sister to a porn star on a week to week basis. The Roundtable is a forum for giving each other crap. Too low at times? Yeah, probably. But that means you’re one of us. :-)
Coming in August: Rock M Nation's 2010 Missouri Football Preview!!!
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by Bill C. on Jul 22, 2010 8:17 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
nice
Given enough velocity even a pig will fly
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jul 22, 2010 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions
The thing about the relationship not lasting . . .
was definitely sarcastic, mock bravado of a kind that permeates the Roundtable. As Bill noted, I also do not believe that Dave’s sister is a porn star.
Going back to the original question: I think it’s really hard to give you a satisfying answer . First, everyone needs to understand the context. Four years, Mike Anderson took over a program that was poisoned. That made it very hard to recruit top-level players. And in retrospect, I think that was part of the brilliance of his hire. At UAB, he was in a league with Memphis, Louisville, Cincinnati, DePaul and other schools that had significant recruiting advantages, and he was successful anyway. We had to suspect that he would have some trouble recruiting when he first got to Columbia (and, also, he didn’t have many scholarships to give when he first arrived). So the ability to get good results from second-tier players was crucial in the short-term.
Now that he has done that, we’re seeing the caliber of his recruiting take a step forward. So one thing I would say is that this is a work in progress, and that your girlfriend should give it more time before making a firm judgment on Anderson’s recruiting. Bill wrote a nice series of posts charting Anderson’s progress in recruiting and on-court success at Missouri next to Nolan Richardson’s success at Arkansas. We should try to dig those up. They’re illuminating.
As for the team ball questions, I think we laid most of that out, and I really do think that if she’s not persuaded by what she’s seen, she’s probably not going to be persuaded. The teams the past two seasons have been unbelievably unselfish. They share the ball as well as team out there, as reflected by their assist totals, and the fact that every guy in the starting lineup and several on the bench has had one or more nights where he has led the team in scoring. It’s also visible on defense where they help, help, help. They chase and gamble, and sometimes a defender gets beat, but they recover and close out brilliantly. One thing I hated about Quin’s teams was how they would chase the ball around the perimeter, and the other team would reverse the ball and get a wide-open shot. Under Anderson, when that happens, a defender magically appears in the guy’s face. It’s beautiful to watch.
I think the biggest obstacle to your girlfriend enjoying the team is the style. I get that. Not everyone loves the chaos (an aside: a friend of mine who has been a rabid Kansas fan for four decades or longer, took a long time to warm to Bill Self because he loved Roy’s secondary break and loathed Bill’s high-low; for some people, it’s not just about winning, it’s about how you seen. See also Brazilian soccer). I don’t know how you’ll every get her to come around on that issue. I think it’s fun to watch, and I like the results. I love how hard the guys work, and how unified they seem to be. For those old enough to remember Norm’s prime years, one thing that a Missouri crowd always appreciated and demanded was effort. And that was something that alienated people during Quin’s tenure: sometimes it looked like they just didn’t play hard. People will love Anderson’s teams for the max effort.
I also think that sometimes to much is made of the style. Anderson tends to dial it down in conference play, especially against teams with guards who can handle the press. The problem is, up till now, he hasn’t had a good mix of players with enough offensive skills in the halfcourt (two years ago, Lyons and Carroll could get it done on the inside, but the perimeter threats weren’t dependable; last year, the perimeter threats were more formidable, but other teams didn’t even have to guard Ramsey and Moore in a halfcourt set). I think that’s about to change.
That’s all I got. Hope it helps.
by Michael Atchison on Jul 22, 2010 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Mike vs. Nolan
http://www.rockmnation.com/2010/3/30/1387324/2009-10-season-wrap-up-part-seven
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The 2010 Missouri Football Preview - Coming in August!
holy cow . . .
I count at least four egregious typos on a quick glance. I need an editor. Somehow, “win” came out “seen” and I did the inexcusable too/to thing. I’m handing in my writers union card.
by Michael Atchison on Jul 22, 2010 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions
I think you need to take a giant chill pill
If you’ve been a reader of this roundtable for very long (ie, more than a week) and can’t figure out how irreverent this group is, then your reading comprehension skills are lacking. Is that too insulting again?
We don’t take a lot of things overly seriously. Perhaps it’s an age difference between you and us, perhaps it’s just you’re a different person, or perhaps it’s because you were looking for an answer to a question you didn’t really ask.
If you wanted us to give the reasons why we think Mike Anderson’s approach to basketball can have long-term success here, or if you wanted us to discuss why Mike Anderson’s teams should be seen as successful on the court, you should have asked that question. You asked us to help you convince your girlfriend of something and gave the reasons why she didn’t already believe that way. You’re asking me to argue with your girlfriend by proxy. Rhansom, this is something I couldn’t care less to do. I was married for a few years, it didn’t work out, and it wasn’t because we didn’t see eye-to-eye about basketball. But I can tell you having been through that kind of long-term relationship with a woman, the last thing on earth I want to do is argue with someone ELSE’S significant other.
So, in light of that, you get the response I gave. If that offended you, well then I’m sorry, but you should probably go ahead and learn to let other peoples opinions of someone they are likely to never meet not bother you. It’s a life skill you will need, and I am serious about that. If you’re getting angry or bothered by things said about you or someone you know by people you don’t know personally, then I’ll just go ahead and say it: you need to mature. I went through the exact same thing in my 20s, so it’s not an insult to say you need to be more mature. I’m 34 and still need to be more mature, and I’m sure Atch or some of the other truly old people on here could point out my immaturities pretty readily. It’s called experience, and it’s the thing you gain the moment after you needed it.
I don’t see it as my job to convince people to be Mizzou fans. I don’t think that Bill C., RPT, and the rest of the REAL contributors to RMN see that as their job either so I think your ideals are misplaced. Personally, I don’t have any interest in convincing someone that Mizzou is the team for them. If you’re a Mizzou fan, then you’re ok by me. If you’re not a Mizzou fan, the piss off and I don’t want your support. Being a Mizzou fan, for me, is not a choice. I was born and raised in Kansas City, I come from a Mizzou family, and this is as automatic to me as anything in my life. I couldn’t turn my back on Mizzou if I wanted to, and I don’t. Whether we’re running the triple option, the spread, Fastest 40 Minutes or Princeton 4-corners, I will cheer for whomever puts on the black and gold. Their success will be cheered loudly, their failures will be noted, but they have my undying and unwavering support no matter what (as long as it looks like they’re trying). I do NOT base my fanhood of anything sports related on the success or style of a program. My fanhood is based on passion. Missouri may never win a conference title ever again, but that will not diminish my love for them. So in that respect, asking me to convince your girlfriend to like Mizzou is a waste of my time. I couldn’t possibly care less if she or anyone else likes Mizzou. I hope they do, but if it’s a choice-type thing then it’s something they’ll just have to do on their own. I’m not a pied piper.
I do hope you’ll stay a loyal reader of RockMNation because Bill and RPT and Greg and The Beef and others put a lot of work into this site, and it’s the best Mizzou blog out there. I certainly wouldn’t want to turn you away from this site. But dude, you’ve got to lighten up. We answered a question in the fashion we’re used to, and we’re going to continue to do that.
I think what happened here is
rhansom posted intending the question to be more along the lines of a general “someone doesn’t believe that Mike Anderson is a good coach. Convince them.” type of question, and because of the way he couched the question and the fact that you’re all rather silly individuals (who happen to know an enormous amount about Mizzou sports), he instead got jokes about his girlfriend.
In other words:
“What we have here is a failure to communicate.”
Making fun of the "Mizzou Needs a Fullback" Club since...well, for a while, anyway.
by jaeger on Jul 22, 2010 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wholeheartedly
Agree
"You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent
As a neutral observer who isn’t in his 20’s anymore, I’d like to add this:
Yeah, rhansom needs to lighten up a little, but the rest of you need to realize that making fun of people and their sig others is a high-trust form of humor. It is only funny when everybody is 100% sure that it isn’t meant seriously. It’s comfortable for you all to make joke’s about ZD’s sister, because you have a lot of history establishing really solid trust. When you start taking potshots at new people, you have to keep in mind that they may legitimately take it the wrong way, so you have to work a little harder to flag “hey, just kidding.”
and now we’ve ALL grown up that teeny bit more it’s time for a group hug and the singing of kumbaya :)
I hear what you are saying
And I especially appreciate the insight, “It’s called experience, and it’s the thing you gain the moment after you needed it.” I’m am not too big to recognize when I’ve erred.
I allowed something to bother me that really never should have.
I’ve said my peace. This is a dead issue for me.
On a positive note, its not like we all couldn’t have been doing something more constructive with our time?
…Right?
"You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent
Hey, Rhansom . . .
. . . I have been married for 38 years and my wife (a nurse) thinks all sports are a waste of time and money, despite the fact my sports reporting paid the bills for all the years we were raising our children. Love trumps favorite pastimes as long as there are other areas of sharing and common pleasure.
I lurked for nearly a year on RMN because these guys had such a close relationship built up already and I didn’t want to presume to be part of that relationship. After a while, however, they (writers and regular contributors) were such a great mix of dry humor, sports expertise, zest for life and youthful exuberance (even you Atch) that RMN became first on my favorites list and I check in regularly throughout the day. I even slip in a thought or two from time to time, though I am often overwhelmed by the depth of friendship and camaraderie exhibited – especially on The Roundtable, which I now thoroughly enjoy.
I think if you hang in there and learn to give as well as take, you will find this to be one of the finest sports blogs period – and definitely the best involved with Mizzou sports.
Happy bloggin’!
Just to second the thought, any relationship is going to have things that you don’t agree about, and unless it’s a matter of central importance to your life (and even sometimes then), that’s just one of the things you figure out ways to work around.
There’s actually data that backs this up: Good couples sometimes say negative things and argue, what is critical is the ration of good to bad. If you’ve got 5 good things for every bad then you are golden.
It seems like there's been an influx of grumpiness to RMN today.
Everybody gettin’ all uppity about the snark.
By the way, I vote for Felicia Day making out with Tina Fey. IT EVEN RHYMES.
Boom.
Making fun of the "Mizzou Needs a Fullback" Club since...well, for a while, anyway.
Seriously...
…we need real football to talk about, and SOON…
Coming in August: Rock M Nation's 2010 Missouri Football Preview!!!
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I'm not sure whether or not you're joking.
Regardless, excellent use of irony.
Making fun of the "Mizzou Needs a Fullback" Club since...well, for a while, anyway.
My Question Was Picked!
MYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKEDMYQUESTIONWASPICKED!!!!!
(Jumps up, runs around in circles, runs head-first into wall)
Ow…
Elke ware zoon, zo blij van harte / Hemels boven ons zijn blauw / Er is een geest zo diep binnen ons / Oud Missouri dit is voor jou / Waneer de band het Tijger oorlogslied speelt / En wanneer de strijd over is / We zullen stampen, stampen, stampen, rond de kolommen / Met een kreet voor oud Mizzou!
by Dutch Missourian on Jul 21, 2010 8:01 PM CDT reply actions
I think Texas is still considered pretty untouchable
You mean like USC level untouchable?
“yeah, they beat us, but they had to use that crazy style to do it.” That’s what the British said about the Yanks in the Revolution.
The yanks? Naw, you’re thinking of the Boer war. Those dutch didn’t even line up to shoot? Madness? The yanks in the revolution mostly got slaughtered in glorious defeat after glorious defeat until the French came in and fixed things for them (final battles that were actually successful: Half the troops were French, under a French commander, with the Brits cut off from resupply by a French naval blockade. America won its war of independence mostly because Paris wanted to piss London off, and England had too many other wars going on in other places at the same time.
Other than that, a fantastic analogy :)
2 things.
1. apocalypse now, in my humble opinion, is the best war movie i’ve seen. however, i watch saving private ryan every memorial day just to get in the proper frame of mind.
2. you guys all spent more time on the girlfriend question than i would have. you are some good guys.
Anyone who wants to be a can't-hack-it pantywaist who wears their mama's bra, raise your hand. -Benjamin Franklin Rodriguez
just thought of another thing.
what is the significance of the misspelling of "am’r’ca? that one’s over my head.
Anyone who wants to be a can't-hack-it pantywaist who wears their mama's bra, raise your hand. -Benjamin Franklin Rodriguez
as solidpit said below
it’s the pronunciation of it that cuts out the vowels in the middle, as if said with a thick red-necky slur.
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