What If ... Mizzou Were Already In The SEC (1992-93)?

Yesterday, the "To Be Continued..." sign popped up just as Missouri was getting ready to play its first SEC game in the beautiful fall of 1992. The SEC had moved to 14 teams, reeling in not only Arkansas and South Carolina, but also a short-term powerhouse in Texas A&M and ... a good J-school in Missouri. Things aren't going to go well for the Tigers in their first years in the SEC, but they didn't go well in the real early-1990s either, did they?
(For the results below, I am using the Est. S&P+ measure you've probably seen me use before in these types of posts. Before 2005, I do not have a play-by-play database, so I used some of the same concepts in creating an estimated measure based simply on points scored and points allowed.)
(One other note: I tried to keep as many real results on the conference schedule as possible, so scheduling does not necessarily follow a perfect rotation. Occasionally you'll see back-to-back road games versus one team, or other little things like that. But since precise, perfect schedules really weren't the point of this exercise, I didn't mind doing that.)
1992
A quick refresher on what happened in the real 1992:
Best Win: Mizzou 22, Kansas (8-4) 17
Worst Loss: Because it was gross: Oklahoma (5-4-2) 51, Mizzou 17. Because it was a missed opportunity for vengeance: Colorado (9-2-1) 6, Mizzou 0.We remember the early-'90s as a time when Bob Stull's offense was high-flying, but the defense was terrible. That's half-true. The defense truly was not good ... but neither was the offense. Both units ranked 58th in the country according to my Estimated S&P+ measure, and though Phil Johnson and Jeff Handy had good games in his time in black and gold, the mostly came against terrible defenses. In 1992, for instance, Mizzou scored 44 against 1-AA Marshall, 27 against 5-6 Kansas State, and 26 against 4-6-1 Oklahoma State. But against everybody else, they managed just 14.6 PPG. They did score 24 against Nebraska, mostly in a comeback effort, and they scored 22 against 8-4 Kansas, but ... not good.
The 1992 team did manage to create hope for 1993, however. They were young, with players like Steve Martin just beginning to thrive, and they managed to finish the season with back-to-back wins over Kansas State and Kansas, in which both the offense and defense took steps forward. But that didn't change the fact that the first nine games were, how to put it nicely ... awful.
And then there was the Thursday night ESPN game against Colorado where the wind and cold made for one of the most unpleasant experiences imaginable. Let's just agree to this right now: whether we're in the Big Ten or Big 12 in the future ... no more Thursday night ESPN home games. Ever. Ever, ever, ever.
And now, to alternate 1992.
| Date | Opponent | W/L | Score | Record |
| 9/12 | at Illinois | L | 17-24 | 0-1 |
| 9/19 | Florida | L | 24-40 | 0-2 (0-1) |
| 9/26 | at Georgia | L | 7-33 | 0-3 (0-2) |
| 10/3 | Marshall | W | 44-21 | 1-3 (0-2) |
| 10/10 | Kentucky | W | 28-24 | 2-3 (1-2) |
| 10/17 | Texas A&M | L | 13-26 | 2-4 (1-3) |
| 10/24 | at Tennessee | L | 16-41 | 2-5 (1-4) |
| 10/31 | at South Carolina | L | 16-21 | 2-6 (1-5) |
| 11/7 | Vanderbilt | T | 20-20 | 2-6-1 (1-5-1) |
| 11/14 | at Arkansas | L | 28-42 | 2-7-1 (1-6-1) |
| 11/28 | Kansas | W | 22-17 | 3-7-1 (1-6-1) |
Record: 3-7-1
Points: 235-309 (-74)
Record in Big 8: 3-8
Points: 214-269 (-55)
The 1992 season wasn't an amazing one for the Big 8 -- Nebraska, Colorado and Kansas were the only bowl-eligible teams -- so Mizzou's point differential is a little worse in the SEC, if just because of the blowout losses to Tennessee and Georgia.
What Doesn't Happen: Missouri doesn't get an opportunity to exact revenge on Colorado for the Fifth Down (and fail to take advantage of such an opportunity in a 6-0 Thursday night freezeout loss on ESPN).
What Does Happen: Mizzou puts up a respectable showing in its debut, a home game versus Steve Spurrier's Gators. They are mostly competitive through mid-October before a thumping against Tennessee and a disappointing road loss to a bad South Carolina team end any marginal bowl hopes. They improve late; they blow a lead in a tie versus Vanderbilt, but they finish with an upset win over soon-to-be Big 14 member Kansas. The late improvement is enough to get Bob Stull a fifth year in Columbia.
SEC West
Alabama (8-0, 11-0)
Texas A&M (7-1, 10-1)
Ole Miss (6-2, 9-2)
Mississippi State (4-4, 7-4)
Arkansas (3-4-1, 3-7-1)
Auburn (2-5-1, 5-5-1)
LSU (1-7, 3-8)
Texas A&M definitely makes the most immediate impact of the four newcomers -- they were quite good in the early-1990s. Still, they cannot hold a candle to the eventual national champions from Tuscaloosa. Meanwhile ... we forget just how bad LSU was before Nick Saban came to town.
SEC East
Tennessee (6-2, 9-2)
Florida (6-2, 8-3)
Georgia (6-2, 9-2)
South Carolina (3-5, 5-6)
Vanderbilt (2-5-1, 4-6-1)
Missouri (1-6-1, 3-7-1)
Kentucky (1-7, 3-8)
Slightly different scheduling (as compared to the real 1992) results in a three-way tie atop the East. Because of their head-to-head win over Florida (both beat Georgia), Tennessee actually advances to the first SEC championship game instead of Florida ... and they don't put up nearly as much of a fight.
SEC Championship Game
Alabama 28, Tennessee 9
In other words, this documentary never happens. People were worried that an extra game would hurt the SEC's national title hopes, but Alabama leaves nothing to doubt.
Bowls
Liberty: Ole Miss 13, Air Force 0
Peach: North Carolina 21, Mississippi State 17
Hall Of Fame: Tennessee 38, Boston College 23
Gator: Florida 27, N.C. State 10
Citrus: Georgia 21, Ohio State 14
Sugar: Alabama 34, Miami 13
No changes here from the real 1992. Bama still takes home the crown, and the SEC still goes 5-1.
1993
Best Win: Mizzou 31, Illinois (5-6) 3 ... followed by ...
Worst Loss: Texas A&M (10-2) 73, Mizzou 0Here is where I remind everybody of who was on Bob Stull's strangely fantastic coaching staff in the early-1990s (from a 2006 Trib article):
The most remarkable upshot of the Stull era might be the prodigious coaching careers that emerged from his staff. The Stull coaching tree - it’s more like a branch off the Don James sequoia - never came to blossom at Missouri. But it produced some impressive legacies.
This fall, Koetter begins his sixth season as Arizona State’s head coach. Philadelphia Eagles Coach Andy Reid was the Tigers’ offensive line coach for three seasons under Stull. Reid’s offensive coordinator in Philadelphia, Marty Mornhinweg, coached the MU tight ends and offensive line. Carolina Panthers linebackers coach Ken Flajole was the secondary coach. Chicago Bears special teams assistant Dave Toub was MU’s strength coach. Baylor secondary coach Larry Hoefer held multiple roles under Stull. Longtime Kansas State defensive line coach Mo Latimore coached the same group at Missouri.
With all that coaching talent in Columbia, how could the Tigers have failed so miserably?
"Sometimes," Flajole said last week, pondering the question from his Carolina Panthers office, "at certain places, at certain universities, for whatever reasons, things just don’t work out."
After miserable campaigns again in 1991 and 1992, there was enough returning talent to maybe once again hope for six wins, especially considering Mizzou finished the 1992 season hot, beating both Kansas State and Kansas. They whipped an Illinois team led by Simeon Rice and Kevin Hardy, 31-3, in the season opener, and optimism began to grow pretty strong.
And then Mizzou went to College Station. The 73-0 loss that followed -- in which R.C. Slocum was doing whatever he possibly could not to score more points -- effectively marked the end of the Bob Stull era. Mizzou would go on to thump Oklahoma State (I was there again!) and squeak by a 3-win Iowa State team, but there was just no hope. They could only manage a tie against a terrible SMU squad, and they once again got rolled by any team with a pulse. The Stull era ended with a sad 28-0 loss at the hands of Kansas in Lawrence, and the Larry Smith era would begin soon after.
| Date | Opponent | W/L | Score | Record |
| 9/11 | Illinois | W | 31-3 | 1-0 |
| 9/18 | at Texas A&M | L | 0-73 | 1-1 (0-1) |
| 9/25 | Georgia | L | 20-28 | 1-2 (0-2) |
| 10/2 | SMU | T | 10-10 | 1-2-1 (0-2) |
| 10/9 | at Florida | L | 3-39 | 1-3-1 (0-3) |
| 10/16 | South Carolina | W | 23-21 | 2-3-1 (1-3) |
| 10/23 | at Vanderbilt | L | 10-12 | 2-4-1 (1-4) |
| 10/30 | Tennessee | L | 10-34 | 2-5-1 (1-5) |
| 11/6 | at Kentucky | L | 31-38 | 2-6-1 (1-6) |
| 11/13 | Arkansas | L | 23-24 | 2-7-1 (1-7) |
| 11/27 | at Kansas | L | 0-28 | 2-8-1 |
Record: 2-8-1
Points: 161-310 (-149)
Record in Big 8: 3-7-1
Points: 192-344 (-152)
What Doesn't Happen: Well ... Mizzou doesn't have to get thumped by 11-1 West Virginia and 11-1 Nebraska.
What Does Happen: They instead get thumped by 12-1 Florida and 9-2-1 Tennessee. And A&M still happens (obviously). This year would have sucked if Missouri were in the MAC. But hey, they win on Homecoming, so that's something.
SEC West
Texas A&M (8-0, 10-1)
Auburn (7-1, 10-1)
Alabama (4-3-1, 7-3-1)
Arkansas (3-4-1, 5-5-1)
LSU (3-5, 6-5)
Ole Miss (3-5, 5-6)
Mississippi State (1-6-1, 2-7-2)
An on-probation Auburn squad no longer goes undefeated while banned from the postseason; instead, Texas A&M takes the division crown, with only a non-conference loss to Oklahoma preventing a perfect record. With Alabama regressing following their national title run and both Ole Miss and Mississippi State taking steps backwards, the West really isn't a very strong division this season.
SEC East
Florida (8-0, 10-1)
Tennessee (6-1-1, 9-1-1)
Georgia (3-5, 6-5)
Kentucky (3-5, 5-6)
Vanderbilt (2-6, 5-6)
South Carolina (2-6, 4-7)
Missouri (1-7, 2-8-1)
The race is between Florida and Tennessee, and Florida takes the crown with a 41-34 home win over the Vols. They, too, have a non-conference blemish: 33-21 to Florida State. Still, the SEC championship is a heavyweight title fight between 10-1 teams.
SEC Championship Game
Florida 31, Texas A&M 23
A&M was good, but Florida was still better.
Bowls
Gator: Alabama 24, North Carolina 10
Peach: Tennessee 42, Clemson 14
Citrus: Texas A&M 24, Penn State 17
Sugar: Florida 41, West Virginia 7
Two bowls change (compared to real life) this time around -- A&M replaces Tennessee in the Citrus Bowl, and Tennessee replaces Kentucky in the Peach.
The 1993 season is Bob Stull's final campaign in Columbia. To avoid some serious headaches, we are going to say that Larry Smith is still named to replace him. Here are the schedules that await him (with preseason rankings) in his first two seasons at Ol' Mizzou. The SEC became very top-heavy in the mid-1990s.
1994
9/3: Tulsa
9/10: at No. 21 Illinois
9/17: at South Carolina
10/1: No. 1 Florida
10/8: at Georgia
10/15: Ole Miss
10/22: at No. 13 Tennessee
10/29: Kentucky
11/5: Vanderbilt
11/12: at Arkansas
11/19: Kansas
11/26: at Hawaii
1995
9/2: North Texas
9/9: Georgia
9/16: at Ole Miss
9/23: UL-Monroe
10/7: at No. 5 Florida
10/14: Kentucky
10/21: No. 8 Tennessee
10/28: at South Carolina
11/11: at Vanderbilt
11/18: Arkansas
11/25: at Kansas
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Good thing
they still get to go to Hawaii I remember being able to stay up till 1 AM, to listen to that game on the radio, which for an 11 year old was boss
I'm tell ya like the bath tub told the toilet stool, " I get as much ass as you but I don't have to take all that shit!"
-Dolemite
i would rather play i just won the powerball
or my house is paid off and my kids all have free rides through college.
those years of mizzou were very painful. they made me very bitter .
can't we just pave over kansas?
Hey...it still beats the excrement of the Widenhofer years.
To SEC, or not to SEC, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous Texas,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them?
How bout Uni rumors?
#Mizzou uni scoop: Was told uni’s look “traditional”, not like Oregon, OK State. Multiple helmets, one is the old traditional M with tweaks.
Possible #Mizzou uni scoop: Hearing there’s a gold helmet with the Tiger big on one side, a la Boise State. Possible gray, white versions.
Interesting no?
I'm cool with that
If we can have Gold turf too.
gold, gary, gold!!
In love with the new Gaknar avatar.
by threadkiller on Dec 11, 2011 2:54 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I giant tiger on one side would be pretty cool.
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Dec 11, 2011 4:24 PM CST up reply actions
I think so too
It has to be the alternate helmet though. Different background colors for our regular M helmet would be cool too. I’m really excited to see them.
a gold helmut with M would look very much like the one Montana st. has.
which was on espn yesterday.
That's right Ice Man. I am dangerous
Pie Forever!
I would like an allll white alternate
With a white helmet with a large black stripe down the middle, two small black stripes on either side of the large stripe, and a large black M on the sides.
I went to under-grad at Montana St and I keep
saying if MSU was good at football when I was there I’d be a MSU fan but instead I arrived at MU when stuff got awesome in football.
The tiger head on the side of some WWII bombers would be so cool…….
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Dec 11, 2011 5:04 PM CST up reply actions
K-State trailing North Florida by 2 w/ 12 mins left in the game
I'm tell ya like the bath tub told the toilet stool, " I get as much ass as you but I don't have to take all that shit!"
-Dolemite
As long as we're on the subject of rumors
Any news on the big recruiting targets?
DG-B?
Boehm?
A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the universe,
"The fact has not created in me a sense of obligation."
--Stephen Crane
Boehm is reported to have had a really good visit
Schere and Moe seemed to say on twitter that he was ready to recommit
DGB didn’t come this weekend, at least that was the last I heard
That's all well and good to say
The problem is that Bill Snyder squeezes the most wins out of the least talent of any coach in college football; whereas Weis could barely crack 0.500 at a program that has everything they could ever want (and most of those wins came with Willingham’s players). Maybe he’ll be successful and we’ll all be surprised, but the odds certainly look stacked against him.
by Damnatio Memoriae on Dec 11, 2011 5:07 PM CST up reply actions
I love how he "hobbled to the court"
And the students booed when he asked why k-state was better. Also like that he admitted he has to figure out how k-state wins. One of the most basic offenses in college surely will be a challenge
Snyder's offenses (and defenses) are basic
and his teams rarely blow you away on paper (except that they tend to be big at all positions), but they don’t make mistakes, and they beat you up. His offenses may only get 3 yards on every play and his defenses may give up 3 yards on every play, but on every down his players hit somebody, and in the 4th quarter, when you’re feeling beat up, his teams really start to out execute you.
by Damnatio Memoriae on Dec 11, 2011 5:34 PM CST up reply actions
Mhm he just coaches basic, execution football. And it still works, and it always will
I really do love how he does it.
Yep
The only downside is that those types of teams have to be front-runners. If you play a bludgeoning, run-first offense, you have to spend your time practicing that, and you have to recruit for that, so if the other team can build a lead, or stack the box to stuff you on 1st and 2nd, and force you to pass, you’re not really prepared to do that. This is the opposite problem spread-to-pass teams have, because they end up in a lot of 3rd-and-longs, but they’re also better equipped to deal with it. There’s always tradeoffs.
by Damnatio Memoriae on Dec 11, 2011 5:48 PM CST up reply actions
Ha and that's why the spread became popular, because now you can win with out 5 star athletes up front
which are always rarer than a competent QB or shorter wide outs. But the run first offense takes up time, which could force the spread to have to be super efficient, which is what you saw in last years NC game. Oregon couldn’t score every time they had the ball and Auburn, which was basically a power/option spread team, could just grind out the win. I know Oregon is a run oriented spread, but they are about quick strikes, not possession.
I love this kind of x/o’s, scheming, its more up my alley than stats. I would love to see Mizzou continue to build upon the option, I think that it could fit in with our strengths very well. If we can continue to use the option/ pistol to run the ball and keep defenses foused on it, we have two great deep threats in Lucas and Washington, and a good running QB who is an even better passer. The OL will be young, and run blocking is simpler to execute (in theory) than pass blocking and that will be huge with the SEC teams we will play. Our defense will be solid, especially when our secondary can shut down some teams best wideouts with Gaines. Our LB’s will be good, especially with Ebner and Wilson (who I think has the potential to be a extremely special player). Sheldon should anchor the DL. So a solid defense backing up an offense that can run and pass equally effectively sounds like a recipe for success to me. But we will see which way Pinkel takes it.
That's going to be tough.
Considering K-State is the second most recognized program in the country.
I’m known as a bit of a dreamer!
by MizzouRah04 on Dec 11, 2011 5:11 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I'm just wondering how Mizzou ever won a game.
Between the recognition factor of K-State and the obvious talent advantage of A&M….
"When among evil companions, try to fit in." - Wild Bill Donovan
Rocky Balboa once told me, "Nothing is real if you don't believe in who you are."
Well that's clearly why we left the Big 12...
K State took all the recognition, there was none left for Mizzou.
Am I the only one who thinks Tim Tebow is a witch?
He played absolutely atrociously today for three quarters, completed only 21/40 passes today, 5.9 YPA, 1 TD, 2 Turnovers against the 28th best pass defense!!! A team that was crippled without its star QB and RB (Cutler and Forte) and Tebow still didn’t have a single good possession until there were less than 5 minutes to go in the game. And yet he won, in large part due to the defense and a couple of amazing kicks by Matt Prater and got 98% of the credit for doing about 37% of the work!!! He hasn’t even completed half of his passes this year. He’s only had one impressive game this season, (Minnesota) and yet everyone is under his spell. No, I’m sure of it. He’s definitely a witch.
"You don't like to see hookers going down on players like that."
He is believes he is going to win, no matter what
He may make mistakes, but he forces ever team he plays to play perfectly against him in order to beat him. If the Bears had done the basics, they would have won, but they didn’t. He is talented enough to were you have to pick your poison, have him run or pass, and hope you can contain. We have been so used to expecting QB’s to play a certain way, they have on job to do and that is pass the ball efficiently. Tebow plays a different way. He is good enough at everything where the offense always has an advantage when they run or pass. He is a good enough runner to break tackles, which makes him a big enough threat so that you can’t drop into anything more pass specific on defense than nickle. And no matter what you say, if he has the time, he is as accurate as anyone in the league. His motion is the one thing that keeps him from being an outstanding passer, but because he gets enough time due to the fact that you can’t blitz him, he may break out for a big run, he can start completing passes. He isn’t a witch. He is an outstanding football player. Not QB. Player. He plays the game. He creates mismatches. Think of him as the Rob Gronkowski of QBs.
I think a more apt description is Trent Dilfer, but he can run
I think as time goes on, defensive coordinators will figure out how to play against him. He’s not the man-among-boys that he was in college, everyone is big and fast in the pros, and as the season goes on, those hits will start to stack up and he’ll slow down if he doesn’t get injured or concussed outright.
That said, I want him to be successful. I want every ESPN talking head that said “that kind of quarterback can’t be successful in the pros” to look like the overpaid dipshit they are. I don’t think it will happen, but it would be nice.
by Damnatio Memoriae on Dec 11, 2011 8:59 PM CST up reply actions
if it doesn't happen,
it won’t be for lack of trying. i think he’ll be a pro bowl level qb someday because i think he’ll work harder than everyone else. and he’ll need to, because clearly it doesn’t come naturally.
In love with the new Gaknar avatar.
by threadkiller on Dec 11, 2011 9:08 PM CST up reply actions
Honestly
Just watching him, and taking into consideration he’s not throwing to great receivers, I’d say he’s progressing just fine for a player at this point in his career. He takes too long to get the ball out, but that’s equal parts not seeing the field at NFL speed and having a long wind-up. The seeing the field at NFL speed thing is normal for a young QB, and I think he’ll figure that out with time, and will start “throwing guys open” rather than “throwing to open guys.” The wind-up is harder to fix, but he has a reputation for being coachable and working hard, and it’s just a matter of getting a ton of reps so that a shorter tighter motion become muscle memory and easier to execute under pressure.
I’m not way into the whole religion thing, because I’m not religious myself, but he’s clearly a good character guy and has a good work ethic. I’d be a whole lot more comfortable with kids having him as a role model than just about anyone else in the league.
by Damnatio Memoriae on Dec 11, 2011 9:16 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think you can change his throwing motion any more.
It’s always going to be a long windup. NBC showed how Tebow actually has good anticipation so he starts the windup in time to make the throws. You can’t fool around with it too much more or else his accuracy, what there is of it, goes out the window.
"When among evil companions, try to fit in." - Wild Bill Donovan
Rocky Balboa once told me, "Nothing is real if you don't believe in who you are."
i disagree with the throwing motion thing.
minor league coaches change pitchers’ deliveries on a semi regular basis. different sport, yes, but same principle, in myopinion. not saying it will be easy, but possible, at least.
In love with the new Gaknar avatar.
by threadkiller on Dec 11, 2011 9:37 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
This is basically sums up my uneducated opinion
I don’t buy the whole throwing motion voodoo thing, no matter how often it gets repeated. It’s like any other athletic motion, the more you do it, the more natural it becomes. He’s been throwing a certain way his whole life, and it’s going to take a lot of reps to break those habits, especially under pressure. And if every other quarterback can be accurate with a shorter throwing motion, he can to.
by Damnatio Memoriae on Dec 11, 2011 10:03 PM CST up reply actions
Favre had that side arm motion
Tebow does need to work on it, and he has been, if you watch the college video and todays video, it has gotta better. Give him an off season to work on it, practice in an offense designed around him, and even if it doesn’t improve, he will still be successful.
by MizzouRugby on Dec 11, 2011 10:10 PM CST up reply actions
I have only watched as much Tebow as I have b/c he's on my fantasy team...
but consider this. Coming into the season there was no OTA’s, no regular training camp, no working through the playbook. The Broncos traded his #1 receiver to the Rams and only of late has Demariyus Thomas started playing up to his draft pick (ahead of Tebow). The roster was not built for Tebow to succeed, it was built for Kyle Orton to succeed. His star RB(McGahee) was the backup coming into the season and frankly McGahee has never been the same since his knee got blown up in college.
In THIS offseason, if the Broncos truly ARE committed to Tebow, hopefully they will bring in the kind of personnel that will amplify his strengths (like better OL and receivers who can actually catch the ball). He has a poor completion percentage, but how many of his passes are bad throws? Seems like most of them are dropped by the receivers or thrown out of bounds/away to avoid a sack.
"When among evil companions, try to fit in." - Wild Bill Donovan
Rocky Balboa once told me, "Nothing is real if you don't believe in who you are."
EXACTLY
If you build an offense around him, like every other organization committed to winning does with their QB (Patriots, Colts, Steelers as examples) then he will be even more successful. They created this offense over a bye week and have been building it since. His wind up is slow, but as he gets more comfortable, which he has since his first start, you can see he is becoming more and more accurate and is Big Ben like at extending plays. If they commit to him, use the draft/ trade to get another good running back, a tight end that creates even more mismatches on offense, and if they can keep the defense young, they will be contenders. Especially when the best teams in the AFC are getting older, in 5 years, the Browns, Titans, Bengals and Broncos and other teams like that will all benefit from the draft and teams like the Steelers, Ravens and Patriots will lose a ton of talent to age.
Tebow has what it takes. I just want a team to commit to him so he can continue to prove it.
The thing is though, the option is like the pick and roll
You know its coming, but you can only hope to contain it. It takes an ELITE level defense to stop it. The Bears did well early, but just the nature of running 50+ times a game makes it even more effective as you continue to run the ball. He runs about 15-20 times a game, and most of those are outside of the tackles, which reduces the wear and tear. He is more athletic than other QBs (Brady and the Mannings are 12 year old girls in comparison) and that helps him reduce the number of times he gets hit in the pocket.
It has already happened. The dipshits at ESPN are eating their words now, because 7-1 is amazing for any QB. Others who are supposed to be up to “John Clayton’s ELITE LEVEL™” haven’t done nearly as much as Tebow has to help the team win.
I also don’t understand why people focus on completion percentage as how great the QB is. Tyler Palko is more efficient with his passes than Tebow, so isn’t he better? Too many people focus solely on numbers to try to explain how good a player is (sorry Bill).
by MizzouRugby on Dec 11, 2011 10:07 PM CST up reply actions
The important thing is to look at the RIGHT numbers
not just any numbers.
by Sheriff Blalock on Dec 11, 2011 10:27 PM CST up reply actions
I agree with that
Numbers can prove something, but they don’t describe. Numbers don’t describe how Tebow ran over 2 defenders to get 16 yards on a 3rd and 15. It’s the intangibles that make players great. A more conventional example would be Peyton. His ability to out think the defense, to audible to the play that will be the most successful is something you can’t measure. But it is easier for ESPN to show records and stats than to think and describe how different players effect the game, so that’s what we get. Hell, ESPN even makes up their own stats now.
by MizzouRugby on Dec 11, 2011 10:38 PM CST up reply actions
Numbers can very much describe if you're indeed looking at the right numbers.
Follow me at @SBN_BillC!
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I guess I just haven't spent enought time looking at your stats break down
I didn’t mean to insult anyone at all, especially you. I think I need to spend more time thinking about what I write
by MizzouRugby on Dec 12, 2011 10:58 AM CST up reply actions
Numbers don’t describe how Tebow ran over 2 defenders to get 16 yards on a 3rd and 15.
You just used 4 numbers to describe. Just sayin’. ;-D
I see your point, but I think you have to use numbers in context. Lazy numbers don’t describe. Think about how most official stats subtract yards lost on sacks from the rushing total, even though the play was clearly a passing attempt. This is a lazy stat that doesn’t require the stat keeper to actually watch the game. Think about how we, as Mizzou fans, consider the bubble screen to be a run, and add/subtract the numbers accordingly, whereas conventional stats consider it a pass, simply because the quarterback throws the ball.
by Damnatio Memoriae on Dec 12, 2011 8:30 AM CST up reply actions
Both of those examples have always bugged me!
I think I should spend more time reading the stat lines, but I’ve always been more drawn to seeing the game as a play, with hero’s and swinging emotions and tragedy and all that stuff, more than I see it as a video game.
by MizzouRugby on Dec 12, 2011 11:02 AM CST up reply actions
More important than reading the stats, is understanding what they mean
And what they don’t mean. And being able to put them into context. This is why some of Bill’s stuff is so cool, like leverage rate compared to 3rd down success rate. It’s a stat that requires watching the game, rather than just looking at the box score.
by Damnatio Memoriae on Dec 12, 2011 11:52 AM CST up reply actions
I guess my problem is that I see them, I read the explaining bit and I'm still lost for the most part
by MizzouRugby on Dec 12, 2011 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe, if you ask really nicely
Bill will give you a personal tutorial
by Damnatio Memoriae on Dec 12, 2011 10:01 PM CST up reply actions
a Jesus loving witch! only on rmn! :-)
In love with the new Gaknar avatar.
by threadkiller on Dec 11, 2011 8:42 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
If you watched the postgame interview
Tebow deflected all credit onto the other players of the team. He may “get the credit” because he’s the QB, but he’s not accepting it.
"When among evil companions, try to fit in." - Wild Bill Donovan
Rocky Balboa once told me, "Nothing is real if you don't believe in who you are."
I was looking at that a couple weeks ago
I think it would be cool to do that every summer during the lull between spring ball and two-a-days, maybe give people some ideas for new places to try/stuff to do when they’re in town during the fall.
by Damnatio Memoriae on Dec 11, 2011 9:09 PM CST up reply actions
i think they intended to finish, but something happened along the way........

In love with the new Gaknar avatar.
by threadkiller on Dec 11, 2011 9:11 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
From the Braggin Rights wikipedia page
When both teams are ranked: Illinois leads 6-1
by tigers and chiefs fan on Dec 11, 2011 9:12 PM CST reply actions
midgets/cowpies playing an entertaining game tonight.
In love with the new Gaknar avatar.
by threadkiller on Dec 11, 2011 9:51 PM CST via mobile reply actions
the EDSBS.com Agro-Tourism Series
will assist in your MU recon. Just don’t try to hide under the cover of darkness. We shoot first and ask questions later.
Find me on the twitters... @DKinAU

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