Study Hall: Mizzou 78, Illinois 74
Your Trifecta: Dixon-PPressey-Ratliffe. Your winner (sort of): DnrW, who got this one in with the very first comment. Now, technically this one shouldn't count because DnrW's No. 2 pick was just "Pressey," but ... it's almost Christmas. I'll be generous.
Well ... we know Missouri can function in the final two minutes of a close game now. Sure, we had to endure a 21-6 Illinois run just to end up in a position where we could verify this, but alas.
Mizzou 78, Illinois 74
| Mizzou |
Illinois | |
| Pace (No. of Possessions) | 70.0 | |
| Points Per Minute | 1.95 | 1.85 |
| Points Per Possession (PPP) | 1.11 | 1.06 |
| Points Per Shot (PPS) | 1.32 | 1.19 |
| 2-PT FG% | 47.5% | 58.7% |
| 3-PT FG% | 36.8% | 25.0% |
| FT% | 82.6% | 80.0% |
| True Shooting % | 56.4% | 55.7% |
| Mizzou | Illinois | |
| Assists | 13 | 10 |
| Steals | 7 | 5 |
| Turnovers | 13 | 17 |
| Ball Control Index (BCI) (Assists + Steals) / TO |
1.54 | 0.88 |
| Mizzou | Illinois | |
| Expected Offensive Rebounds | 12 | 11 |
| Offensive Rebounds | 11 | 12 |
| Difference | -1 | +1 |
Sometimes The Full-Game Stats Don't Tell The Story
Over the course of the game, Mizzou shot 37% from 3-point range, held Illinois to 25% on the same shots, nearly doubled the Illini up in terms of ball control, and damn near broke even on the boards. Frame things like this, and it would have seemed like Mizzou won by 15. They, uh, did not.
The momentum swings, both large and small, were ridiculous in this one.
1H, 20:00 to 14:48: Illinois 7, Mizzou 2
1H, 14:48 to 12:58: Mizzou 17, Illinois 2
1H, 1:46 to Halftime: Mizzou 6, Illinois 0
2H: 18:46 to 16:50: Illinois 9, Mizzou 4
2H: 16:50 to 15:16: Mizzou 5, Illinois 0
2H: 15:16 to 7:00: Illinois 21, Mizzou 6
2H: 2:02 to 0:56: Mizzou 7, Illinois 0
Within each of these episodes came complete changes in confidence, success, execution, effort and everything else. This was a season-long drama wrapped into 40 minutes.
Bertrand In The Competition
I wrote yesterday that it was impossible to know what to expect from Illinois' bench. As many as 12 Illini have made contributions at some point this year, but none were guaranteed. Illinois absolutely needed somebody to step up for them to have a chance, however, and Joseph Bertrand did exactly that. He came into the game averaging 11 minutes and three points per game; the 6'5 sophomore played 28 minutes (mostly at the No. 4 spot, in place of the ineffective Tyler Griffey), made all nine of his field goal attempts, scored 19 points, and grabbed three offensive rebounds; eighteen of those minutes and 17 of those points came after halftime. Basketball is a game of tiny, momentary matchups, and credit Bruce Weber for stumbling across one that very much worked; it not only kept Illinois close, it gave them a chance to win.
Mizzou Player Stats
(Definitions at the bottom of the post.)
| Player |
AdjGS | GmSc/Min | Line |
| Mike Dixon | 22.5 | 0.80 | 28 Min, 18 Pts (3-8 FG, 2-3 3PT, 10-12 FT), 4 Ast, 2 Reb |
| Phil Pressey | 16.0 | 0.44 | 36 Min, 18 Pts (7-15 FG, 1-4 3PT, 3-4 FT), 5 Ast, 2 Reb, 2 Stl, 3 TO |
| Ricardo Ratliffe | 11.8 | 0.62 | 19 Min, 14 Pts (7-10 FG, 0-1 FT), 4 Reb (3 Off), 3 TO |
| Matt Pressey | 9.2 | 0.32 | 29 Min, 10 Pts (3-8 FG, 1-4 3PT, 3-3 FT), 6 Reb, 2 Stl, 2 TO |
| Kim English | 7.5 | 0.21 | 36 Min, 8 Pts (3-7 FG, 1-2 3PT, 1-1 FT), 8 Reb, 2 Ast |
| Steve Moore | 7.1 | 0.34 | 21 Min, 2 Pts (1-2 FG), 5 Reb, (3 Off), 3 Blk |
| Marcus Denmon | 2.2 | 0.07 | 31 Min, 8 Pts (2-9 FG, 2-6 3PT, 2-2 FT), 3 Ast, 3 TO |
- Mike Dixon is a tough, tough S.O.B. He is 6-foot-1 and listed at 185 pounds (soaking wet, maybe) ... and he continuously threw himself down the lane and at the basket. He hit the ground at least five or six times, earned over half of Missouri's free throws, and made an enormous three pointer with 4:43 left to give his reeling Tigers the lead again. He earned so much goodwill from me that I didn't even mind when he launched a very ill-advised, quick 3-pointer on the very next possession. Perhaps even more than Marcus Denmon, Dixon goes for the kill shot during a game. He is part-Clarence Gilbert (going for the dagger 3), part-Anthony Peeler (attacking the rim and drawing contact), and part-Jason Sutherland (F***-You demeanor), and one could make the case that he has made himself the second-most important player on this team.
- Oh, Flip Pressey. You flashed back to last year for a while there, didn't you? But whether Frank Haith stuck with Flip because he had no choice (there aren't exactly many options on the bench) or because this was a prime opportunity for a Teaching Moment, Pressey played 38 minutes, fought through some sloppy play and a temporary identity crisis ... and in the end, made a fancy pass to Ricardo Ratliffe to give Mizzou the lead with 2:50 left and, on the game-clinching possession, ran the clock down, took his defender off the dribble, and made a layup to give Mizzou a five-point lead with 12 seconds left. It wasn't pretty, and in the absence of the Big Game version of Marcus Denmon, Pressey tried to shoulder a bit too much of the scoring load himself. But Mizzou won, and he ended up being a primary reason why.
- Steve Moore and Ricardo Ratliffe combined to grab three defensive rebounds. Big Kimmie English, meanwhile, grabbed seven. Matt Pressey pulled down another five. Pretty sure that's the definition of "team rebounding." Meanwhile...
- ...Matt Pressey contributed almost as much to the box score as Kim English and Marcus Denmon combined. And Mizzou won. If you showed me English's and Denmon's combined stat lines -- 16 points on 5-for-16 shooting, five turnovers -- I very much wouldn't have expected a win.
| Player | Usage% | Floor% | Touches/ Poss. |
%Pass | %Shoot | %Fouled | %T/O |
| Dixon | 23% | 48% | 4.1 | 59% | 20% | 21% | 0% |
| P. Pressey | 27% | 43% | 4.0 | 59% | 30% | 6% | 6% |
| Ratliffe | 34% | 47% | 2.1 | 0% | 73% | 5% | 22% |
| M. Pressey | 19% | 32% | 1.2 | 0% | 66% | 17% | 17% |
| English | 13% | 34% | 1.2 | 38% | 45% | 4% | 13% |
| Moore | 5% | 45% | 0.3 | 0% | 100% | 0% | 0% |
| Denmon | 20% | 26% | 2.9 | 57% | 29% | 4% | 10% |
To the checklist!
Marcus Denmon's Usage% needs to be 23% or higher. (No.)
Kim English's %T/O needs to be at 10% or lower. (No.)
Kim English's Floor% should be at 35% or higher. (No.)
Ricardo Ratliffe's %Fouled should be at least 10%. (No.)
Phil Pressey's Touches/Possession need to be 3.5 or better. (Yes!)
Mike Dixon's %Pass should be 55% or higher. (Yes!)
Steve Moore's Touches/Possession should be at least 1.0. (No.)
Mizzou spent a good portion of the game reactivating last year's often bogged-down offense, and in terms of style, they departed drastically from what tends to win them games (they were only 2-for-7 on the checklist above). And again, they won. There is certainly something to be said for that.
Three Keys Revisited
From yesterday's preview.
The 3-Point Line
The 3-pointer is a fickle mistress. In theory, Mizzou holds a significant advantage on the 3-point line, particularly on offense. But no matter how open the shots are, and no matter how good the shooter may be ... sometimes the ball just doesn't go through the basket. (And for Missouri players not named Mike Dixon, the outside shots really haven't fallen for Mizzou in the last couple of games.) And Illinois is a good enough defensive rebounding team that if the shots are rimming out, Mizzou doesn't necessarily have a clear Plan B.
Mizzou: 7-for-19 (37%) on 3-pointers
Illinois: 4-for-16 (25%) on 3-pointers
Mizzou was only 2-for-9 in the second half (Illinois: 2-for-7), but again ... the full-game stats went Mizzou's way, even if they played their worst 10 minutes of the season in the second half.
The Hacktastic
Mizzou has been one of the best teams in the country in terms of avoiding fouls this year, and Illinois doesn't draw too many of them. But one player does a decent job in this regard: Meyers Leonard. If Ricardo Ratliffe picks up two early fouls, and then perhaps Steve Moore does the same, then Mizzou could be in trouble.
Fouls: Illinois 16, Mizzou 13.
For the game, the fouls worked out well for Mizzou, but it briefly looked like the worst-case scenario was going to come true. Ricardo Ratliffe picked up his first foul two minutes into the game, his second ten minutes in. Meanwhile, Marcus Denmon picked up his second just 11 minutes in. Mizzou was forced to play without both for a long stretch of time, but thanks to the contributions of Steve Moore (two points, three blocks, four rebounds in the first half) and Matt Pressey (five points, two rebounds), they still led by 11 at halftime.
Marcus Denmon
Mizzou has played three "real" games (games either on the road or versus major conference competition), all on a neutral (or semi-neutral) court. In those three games, Marcus Denmon has averaged 24.0 points (on 63% shooting), grabbed 5.0 rebounds and dished 2.3 assists per game. He has been simply spectacular when Mizzou has needed him to be. And when he's on like that, almost nothing else matters -- he's going to make sure Mizzou wins. He has been less than impressive (for him, anyway) in the last couple of games, but if he raises his game tonight ... then Mizzou probably wins no matter what.
In terms of Adj. Points, Denmon had by far his worst game of the season. The only game that was even close to this one, actually, was his last one (William & Mary). Two games does not a trend make, so we're not going to worry about Mr. Denmon just yet, but it certainly meant quite a few other Tigers had to raise their games. Phil Pressey succeeded, then failed, then succeeded again at exactly that. So did Dixon.
Summary
12-0, baby. It looked like it would be an easy win for a while, but it wasn't, and Illinois deserves a lot of credit for that. While Mizzou was making silly mistakes, Illinois was still playing strong defense and catching fire offensively. But Mizzou persevered and, when Illinois punched themselves out (21-5 runs typically take quite a bit out of you), they made every play they needed to make down the stretch. This is an experienced, seasoned team, and just because they hadn't faced much adversity this year didn't mean they couldn't handle themselves when it presented itself (and it always presents itself). It took a while to stabilize, but ... winner, winner.
---
AdjGS: a take-off of the Game Score metric (definition here) accepted by a lot of basketball stat nerds. It takes points, assists, rebounds (offensive & defensive), steals, blocks, turnovers and fouls into account to determine an individual's "score" for a given game. The "adjustment" in Adjusted Game Score is simply matching the total game scores to the total points scored in the game, thereby redistributing the game's points scored to those who had the biggest impact on the game itself, instead of just how many balls a player put through a basket.
Usage%: This "estimates the % of team possessions a player consumes while on the floor" (via). The usage of those possessions is determined via a formula using field goal and free throw attempts, offensive rebounds, assists and turnovers. The higher the number, the more prevalent a player is (good or bad) in a team's offensive outcome. As you would expect, someone like Kim English has a high Usage%, while Steve Moore has an extremely low one.
Floor%: Via Basketball-Reference.com: Floor % answers the question, "when Player X uses a possession, what is the probability that his team scores at least 1 point?". The higher the Floor%, the more frequently the team probably scores when the given player is involved.
Touches/Possession: Using field goal attempts, free throw attempts, assists and turnovers, Touches attempt to estimate "the number of times a player touched the ball in an attacking position on the floor." Take the estimated touches and divide it by the estimated number of possessions for which a player was on the court, and you get a rough idea of how many times a player touched the ball in a given possession. For point guards, you'll see the number in the 3-4 range. For shooting guards and wings, 2-3. For Steve Moore, 1.30. You get the idea.
Anyway, using the Touches figure, we can estimate the percentage of time a player "in an attacking position" passes, shoots, turns the ball over, or gets fouled.
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It's obviously all sunshine and daffodils in Mizzouland today (and for good reason)...
…but let me be the turd in the punch bowl for a moment. I was really, really concerned with the stretch that Illinois went on that 21-6 run. There are times that your opponents are going to get hot — that’s the way basketball go — but to counteract that, it’s imperative that you have quality offensive possessions in the half-court to slow down their momentum and keep a molehill from becoming a mountain. During that 21-6 run, not only did Illinois get hot, but Mizzou became completely disinterested in a quality possession in the half-court. It’s still early, and a win is a win, but that was concerning then and remains concerning into the future.
"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010
by ghtd36 on Dec 23, 2011 10:15 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
We had at least 3 possessions without a pass just dribble dribble dribble shoot from 3 and miss.
That's right Ice Man. I am dangerous
Pie Forever!
I have FHaith this will be corrected.
It’s good that we got that behavior out of the way with a win.
"Let schoolmasters puzzle their brain, With grammar, and nonsense, and learning; Good liquor, I stoutly maintain, Gives genius a better discerning." – Oliver Goldsmith
I do, too.
I’m glad this is happening in game 12 as opposed to game 32. It just seemed like a mental lapse — everyone wanted to be the guy to hit the big dagger shot — that Haith will have an opportunity to correct.
"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010
You? Concerned? Turd in the Punch Bowl?
p’shaw….
Advocating for the "Spreadbone" since 2010
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by The Beef on Dec 23, 2011 10:22 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Not sure I'm following...
"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010
The Beef is being a snark bully today.
You are not the first he has taken a swing at.
"Let schoolmasters puzzle their brain, With grammar, and nonsense, and learning; Good liquor, I stoutly maintain, Gives genius a better discerning." – Oliver Goldsmith
I was wondering if the Mrs. Beef got out the door with the winning argument,
and you were just taking out your frustrations on us. Or, you had one too many 5he’s.
"Let schoolmasters puzzle their brain, With grammar, and nonsense, and learning; Good liquor, I stoutly maintain, Gives genius a better discerning." – Oliver Goldsmith
to be fair,
2396 is the only one who’s received his venom today. unless you’re counting the one on ghtd36. and really, those 2 are used to it by now.
What do you have against the ring-tailed lemur?
by threadkiller on Dec 23, 2011 10:57 AM CST up reply actions
and deserving of awsome zings.
as are you and I.
Never forget Wolf Island, or pie! #AHAMF, it's vaguely sordid.
by Spider_Monkey on Dec 23, 2011 1:38 PM CST up reply actions
His first two were gold.
Oops, I mean green.
"Let schoolmasters puzzle their brain, With grammar, and nonsense, and learning; Good liquor, I stoutly maintain, Gives genius a better discerning." – Oliver Goldsmith
i get some shots in.
2396 just laid down for beef earlier.
What do you have against the ring-tailed lemur?
by threadkiller on Dec 23, 2011 5:50 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Been at work since before 6am
On a Friday before the holiday weekend, I let my team shift their schedules early so they can get out early…but it means I am in early as well. My boss is gone and it is a slow day as it is so close to the holiday. I was done with actual work by around…oh…I dont know…6:15am or so. Just waiting until I go to lunch at this point.
Advocating for the "Spreadbone" since 2010
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I was wondering who was going to be the first to bring this up.
You didn’t disappoint Beef!
"The thing about quotes on the internet is you cannot confirm their validity" – Abraham Lincoln
call me mr. sunshine-
but I could see that stretch as a lovely object lesson to reinforce the sharing, move the ball, give up a couple of good shots to work for a great shot ethic that has made them so good offensively so far. Less clear will be that they also didn’t play good defense during that stretch, but the answer is the same- play together, don’t let yourself get beat off the dribble, but if you do, someone will be there to help out.
Frank apparently believes in tape, and this team appears to very much get what has gotten them this far- sharing, unselfish basketball- so unless they suddenly become a much more selfish team, not worried.
Our best player was frankly terrible (based on the very high standard Marcus has set), we pretty much quit playing for 10+ minutes, and we still won- against a likely season-long top 25 team- not bad.
speaking of tape, I hope they play Bobby Knight's commentary on the second half while watching the vidoe
I thought Knight really hit the nail on the head when he said that Mizzou needed to penetrate, and at least end up with a foul on a possession. In the first half, Dixon practically did that all by himself. He constantly stopped IL’s momentum by getting baskets back by penetrating, getting fouled, and nailing the freebies. IL never go on a significant run. We have 4 or 5 good slashers on this team. There is no reasons why they can’t slice and dice when the going gets tough. We should really think drive first, or pick and drive.
Irish provenance of the schwa pronunciation of vowels in weakly stressed syllables -> Missoura
Certain guys in our slasher group were intimidated by Brock Osweiler in the paint.
Never forget Wolf Island, or pie! #AHAMF, it's vaguely sordid.
by Spider_Monkey on Dec 23, 2011 1:01 PM CST up reply actions
Here is why I think this team is really really really good:
People are forced to pick apart 4 points wins against a top 25 rival on a neutral court.
As Mizzou fans, we are naturally inclined to have something bad happen and we can all throw ourselves in the pit of despair. So far, the only thing close to that is we almost lost to Illinois.
I love these problems.
Busting Bill C since September 19, 2011 10:19 CST, 8:19 PDT.
by mizzou2396 on Dec 23, 2011 10:39 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I don't think the angst was necessarily about about the bad 8 minutes per se,
but about what that might imply, i.e. a reversion to all that ailed us last year. But agreed on the WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, this is a great team.
Irish provenance of the schwa pronunciation of vowels in weakly stressed syllables -> Missoura
I don't want to write any of that off
I certainly think that you can look at the way a team won and be concerned about it. But Missouri played its worst game against its best opponent in its toughest environment with very little contribution from its All-America candidate or his senior friend who is likely to end up as one of the school’s top 15 all-time scorers, and still advanced to 12-0 for the first time in thirty years. I feel better about the result today than I did last night. Not many teams put up that kind of effort in that kind of situation and win.
That said, I hope they got all the stupid out of their system in the second half.
by Michael Atchison on Dec 23, 2011 10:41 AM CST up reply actions
Sure.
I’m obviously not complaining that they won. I’m complaining that there were stretches when they played at sub-optimal level.
"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010
Oh absolutely
I’d also like to add that throughout last night’s broadcast, Bob Knight was getting more and more frustrated with Mizzou not playing to the level they have previously this season.
He had obviously watched a lot of tape of Mizzou’s previous games. He was really astute at pointing out what we do well.
But as we had more and more crappy offensive possessions, the coach inside Knight kept creeping out. Each consecutive bad possession made him more frustrated. You could hear how badly he wanted to call a timeout and give the Tigers a talking to.
Speaking of…
The only thing that disappointed me from Haith last night was the lack of timeouts to straighten the Tigers out. The only thing I can think is that he was letting them play to prove a point.
“You think you’re so good that you can just be disorganized, rushed and selfish? Well look what happens when you do that compared to playing my way.”
That being said, I think this is a good time for this to happen. They should be a better team because of it. Haith can point to the video tape from this game and tell each player what they need to do better for them to be a championship-caliber team. And based on how they’ve played so far this season, I think that’s their ceiling.
by mizzousundevil on Dec 23, 2011 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
He did call one timeout, though.
And I’m honestly not sure there’s a point in calling another one soon after. If the point didn’t get across the first time, it probably won’t the second time.
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I was going to say the same as you.
I think he felt that a second time out so close wouldn’t help and if the game was close in the end he would need it then.
That's right Ice Man. I am dangerous
Pie Forever!
That said, however...
…he did wait a while to call the first one, especially in comparison to the quick trigger he’s had at times so far this season. It does give you the impression that he possibly wanted the guys to figure out their way out of trouble. And they did … eventually.
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Kinda my point
I definitely got the vibe I mentioned before. That he wanted them to see where selfish, sloppy play got them in the long run.
by mizzousundevil on Dec 23, 2011 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
Isn't that one of the things XCMA was chastised for?
Letting the guys coach themselves or “figure out their way out of trouble”?
by McZou on Dec 23, 2011 5:08 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Oh I know he called one
In one bad stretch. But there was more than one. I guess I’m used to more stop the bleeding timeouts from head coaches than what I saw last night.
There’s also the argument that he was conserving timeouts for the end of the game.
Either way, the video tape is going to be really telling for Flip and the rest of the team. If you crush teams with superior ball-handling, disciplined play on offense and aggressive defense, you can easily lose if you turn all those dials down to 5 instead of 11.
by mizzousundevil on Dec 23, 2011 12:02 PM CST up reply actions
Are you saying Flip is Nigel (Spinal Tap)?
Irish provenance of the schwa pronunciation of vowels in weakly stressed syllables -> Missoura
Yes?
Sure?
All references to Spinal Tap should be answered in the affirmative.
by mizzousundevil on Dec 23, 2011 4:22 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah...
…at that point after the timeout, you’ve either instilled whatever lessons you need to, or you’re a bad coach, and I don’t think Frank Haith is a bad coach.
"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010
You mean..
I don’t think Frank Haith is a bad coachanymore .
by MU'97 on Dec 23, 2011 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
He's grown on me.
"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010
Can't say you're alone in that regard.
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It's actually been relatively stark how wrong my initial reaction was.
Mizzou, aside from the aforementioned lapses, looks like a far more disciplined team. Having guys like Denmon and Pressey and Dixon and English certainly helps, but the team just looks better.
"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010
hard to believe XCMA couldn't maintain chemistry
when great character guys were on the team. Especially since he had years to work with them, instead of just months for fHaith.
I really hope all of these transfers get on board with the chemistry thing and adapt. Hopefully they’ll see how well things work when you sacrifice individual glory for the sake of the team; a very mature perspective for a college kid.
Never forget Wolf Island, or pie! #AHAMF, it's vaguely sordid.
by Spider_Monkey on Dec 23, 2011 1:47 PM CST up reply actions
I tend to believe that Anderson . . .
. . . (sometime fairly early in the season) got an unofficial heads-up from his agent that Arkansas was going to be open at the end of the year and it was his for the taking, and gave up on coaching and starting treading water and avoiding questions.
That scenario would explain a lot for me, though it does not stop me from losing a lot of respect for the guy.
Go Mizzou!
57-54-9 . . . get used to it, jaybirds; and let us know when you want us to make it worse. Go Mizzou!
by countrycal on Dec 23, 2011 2:26 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Jimmy Sexton is a golden god
Right Mike Gundy?
We are DAVIDSON City!
by Gaknar on Dec 23, 2011 9:41 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Not good, but still won.
While that stretch in the second half was bad, I wasn’t totally happy with the first half either. They hit a bunch of shots, but the amount of turnovers was terrible. It seemed like some players were trying to make plays that weren’t there. I thought Flip and Ratliffe were particularly guilty of this
The Illini shot well in the second half, but if Mizzou plays their normal game, I don’t think this would have been close.
The bad news is, I think there's a formula to beat Mizzou:
Super-quick guards who can defend the perimeter, get great big-man play on both ends, and get Ratliffe and Moore in foul trouble early.
The good news is, the teams who can execute that are pretty few and far between.
"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010
I'd actually wager that is the formula to beat almost anyone in basketball :-)
Advocating for the "Spreadbone" since 2010
Rock M Nation
by The Beef on Dec 23, 2011 10:45 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
My point is that this team looks more and more like the 2005 Illinois squad by the minute.
Four guards (or, at least, three guards and a forward who can handle the ball [Augustine]), little depth at the big spot, rely on quick-break points, beating people off the dribble and setting up shots they can step into from the outside.
And you look at the team that beat them in the final — North Carolina — and they had all of those pieces: super-quick guard play (Raymond Felton, Marvin Williams, et al), outstanding big man play (Sean May) and they got Nick Smith into foul trouble early.
Is it a generic gameplan? Maybe; teams like Wisconsin or Duke or Kansas likely would have less trouble with it than Missouri just based on the way they play. But the point is that it’s what would be most effective against this team.
"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010
I will be plenty happy with finishing 2nd place this season :-)
Advocating for the "Spreadbone" since 2010
Rock M Nation
So would I.
But Illinois was also fortunate to get a draw that precluded them from facing a team like North Carolina until the final. Fortune may not smile upon Mizzou in the same way.
"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010
well since they were both 1 seeds
and UNC was the best team in the country that year, the only real place they could have met was in the Final Four or Finals.
Busting Bill C since September 19, 2011 10:19 CST, 8:19 PDT.
Well I am glad we now have you worrying about our NCAA tourney draw
Advocating for the "Spreadbone" since 2010
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But that's kind of #firstworldproblems, right?
In a little over a month, we’ve gone from hoping we make the tournament to hoping we get a good draw in the NCAA tourney and comparing ourselves unfavorably to a team that got a 1-seed and was national runner-up.
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Er, I should say...
…comparing ourselves FAVORABLY to a team that got a 1-seed and was national runner-up, and using it as a negative point.
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Ugh.
I quit.
"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010
My point was not to say that Mizzou is guaranteed a 1 seed or any of the results that the 2005 Illinois squad had.
My point was to compare the style of play.
"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010
I read that as you're picking us to win it all.
Double down!
Never forget Wolf Island, or pie! #AHAMF, it's vaguely sordid.
by Spider_Monkey on Dec 23, 2011 11:32 AM CST up reply actions
Right, but my point is just that this is a pretty happy comparison...
…and the way I’m reading it, it is intended to have some negative connotations. That’s why I jumped in—I was confused.
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I was only stating that if Mizzou's style of play really does mimic that of the '05 Illini...
…the formula for beating that style is that of ‘05 North Carolina (or, say, ’11-’12 Kansas).
"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010
Hey, it's better than the formula for beating us last year!
On that, I assume we can agree.
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You mean "don't turn the ball over a ton and you'll be fine"?
Yes. This year’s formula is much tougher to attain.
"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010
Also:
“Be at home.”
“Be able to pass.”
“Be Kansas.”
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"Be on the schedule after February 25" was also effective
by Michael Atchison on Dec 23, 2011 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
That too.
Though technically, we don’t know that this one ISN’T part of the equation this year.
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Well NOW we're screwed.
"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010
Yeah, I kind of peed on the parade with that one.
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you two have collectively
peed on a parade and pooped in a punch bowl. Why do you guys hate Christmas?
Busting Bill C since September 19, 2011 10:19 CST, 8:19 PDT.
It's not that we hate Christmas.
We just really had to go.
"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010
if you're not first, you're last.
What do you have against the ring-tailed lemur?
by threadkiller on Dec 23, 2011 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
if you had more than 1 other person to play with
you could expand your order of finishing. But for you, this phrase is probably true.
no offense
Busting Bill C since September 19, 2011 10:19 CST, 8:19 PDT.
hey, he has a cult following just like you.
Never forget Wolf Island, or pie! #AHAMF, it's vaguely sordid.
by Spider_Monkey on Dec 23, 2011 11:20 AM CST up reply actions
leave him be.
beef stripped away his last shred of dignity this morning.
What do you have against the ring-tailed lemur?
by threadkiller on Dec 23, 2011 11:26 AM CST up reply actions
seriously
I’m a shell of the shell of a man I normally am.
Busting Bill C since September 19, 2011 10:19 CST, 8:19 PDT.
it's a whole Russian doll type thing going on over here
Busting Bill C since September 19, 2011 10:19 CST, 8:19 PDT.
oh we can't lose two Dear Leaders in one week!
Think of all the staged mourners fake crying over the loss of 2396!
Never forget Wolf Island, or pie! #AHAMF, it's vaguely sordid.
by Spider_Monkey on Dec 23, 2011 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
don't worry
I’ll hold out til next week, I want to watch the bowl game.
Busting Bill C since September 19, 2011 10:19 CST, 8:19 PDT.
you riding down with Toupee
or watching on the tube?
Never forget Wolf Island, or pie! #AHAMF, it's vaguely sordid.
by Spider_Monkey on Dec 23, 2011 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
tv
if the weather is nice, I may grill or something and have like a tailgate at home.
Busting Bill C since September 19, 2011 10:19 CST, 8:19 PDT.
Interesting comparison
The biggest difference is that we don’t have a true Deron Williams counterpart. I love Denmon and thinks he’s our best college player since Melvin Booker, but Williams was a ridiculous talent that we don’t have.
by apr67d on Dec 24, 2011 7:04 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Put another way:
Formula to playing Mizzou: having a real good basketball team.
We all understand what being a Mizzou fan is like. That’s no excuse for being a douche.
by jaeger on Dec 23, 2011 10:45 AM CST up reply actions 5 recs
I think no one is giving Bruce Weber credit
He had a great game plan, which is neutralize Denmon and English, and with Meyers Leonard, anything around the basket is going to be that much harder. Basically forcing our least experienced scorers to score. If Flip wants to drive, let him drive and make him hit a shot, but don’t let him dazzle with his passes and create open shots for anyone else. Dixon can score, but gets out of control sometimes – force him to stay in control and score.
For the most part our guys did pretty well in an unusual set up, but during that horrible stretch I think Illinois had them thoroughly confused and off balance.
by a.Fan on Dec 23, 2011 3:18 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Except we could drive all damn day on them
Example: The last drive by Flip.
Example: Every drive by Dixon in the first half.
by mizzousundevil on Dec 23, 2011 4:23 PM CST up reply actions
That was my point, and I think their plan
Let him drive, just don’t allow the pass off of the drive while making Flip prove he can score on his own – which he really hadn’t shown he could do much yet
What can the new year hold?
Before the season started I thought I would be happy going into conference play 9-3 or 10-2, but the team has exceeded my expectations by not dropping a single game. We played some pretty big name programs, but for a majority of them we got them at the right time.
Having said all that, I was happy with the win last night — but the way we won was a cause for concern. English played a good game despite not scoring a ton of points, and with Denmon getting cold in the last week it allowed teams to actually cover him as opposed to the pick-your-poison style offense we have been running as of late.
This is purely speculation, but players do get sick and other things can happen during the year. Also, Denmon last year didn’t have all that spectacular game against Illinois, he was 4-11 from the field and 1-4 on the three. The follow up to that game was versus Old Dominion and the result for that was 8-15 from the field and 5-8 on the three.
I don’t know if I necessarily expect that level of a performance for his next game, but I imagine it will be much closer to that than what he did last night.
Monkeypox out.
throw the pox out, let the spider in.
Never forget Wolf Island, or pie! #AHAMF, it's vaguely sordid.
by Spider_Monkey on Dec 23, 2011 11:22 AM CST up reply actions
beware, ghtd36 put a turd in it
Never forget Wolf Island, or pie! #AHAMF, it's vaguely sordid.
by Spider_Monkey on Dec 23, 2011 11:35 AM CST up reply actions
I really wanna know how this saying came to be...
Is it common to crash a party by putting one of your own turds in an actual punch bowl? Most sayings started somewhere…
if I had to blame someone, I'd say Toupee would be the most likely culprit.
He parties like a rock star.
Never forget Wolf Island, or pie! #AHAMF, it's vaguely sordid.
by Spider_Monkey on Dec 23, 2011 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
And honestly, who doesn't want Mr. Hanky the Christmas Poo at your party?
Hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiidey Hoooooooooooooooh!
Never forget Wolf Island, or pie! #AHAMF, it's vaguely sordid.
by Spider_Monkey on Dec 23, 2011 1:03 PM CST up reply actions
One time I mashed up a couple of holiday Snickers
(you know, the small ones) together and put it in the punch bowl at a party. it was rather convincing.
"Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy." --Frank Sinatra
by Other Side of the Pillow on Dec 23, 2011 1:56 PM CST up reply actions
party foul.
Never forget Wolf Island, or pie! #AHAMF, it's vaguely sordid.
by Spider_Monkey on Dec 23, 2011 1:59 PM CST up reply actions
no big deal guys

I believe in the The Black & Gold Standard
by Logan Hill on Dec 23, 2011 6:38 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
It's like when the refs give you a fifth down...
Never forget Wolf Island, or pie! #AHAMF, it's vaguely sordid.
by Spider_Monkey on Dec 23, 2011 1:47 PM CST up reply actions
"I just had sex" by Lonely Island reference?
if you haven’t heard it, you must.
Marching Mizzou actually plays this song during games!
Never forget Wolf Island, or pie! #AHAMF, it's vaguely sordid.
by Spider_Monkey on Dec 23, 2011 1:58 PM CST up reply actions
"Marching Mizzou actually plays this song during games!"
Video or it didn’t happen.
RockMNation.com (@rockmnation)
Fighting mob mentality since 2007
I can't do it (video link). But I was there at the stadium and when I mentioned it here
a few others confirmed they heard it. So I KNOW they played it at least 2X during the OSU game. And pie IS better than cake.
Never forget Wolf Island, or pie! #AHAMF, it's vaguely sordid.
by Spider_Monkey on Dec 23, 2011 4:50 PM CST up reply actions
you are correct. At my age I didn't know what is was
but daughter, son, his fiancé all commented and thought is was hilarious.
"The thing about quotes on the internet is you cannot confirm their validity" – Abraham Lincoln
by OKCTiger on Dec 23, 2011 5:41 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
They actually play the song all the time!
I probably heard it at just about every home game after the first conference game.
by CapnCribbs on Dec 24, 2011 7:08 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Hell, now I am curious about how few we can hit and still win :-)
Advocating for the "Spreadbone" since 2010
Rock M Nation
by The Beef on Dec 23, 2011 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The thing that strikes me about the near loss
is if you look at the scoring chart, Mizzou put themselves in great position with ~15 minutes left, and basically fumbled away the lead. Illinois made some shots, but our poor offensive possessions ending with bad shots or turnovers were equally to blame. I think those problems are much more correctable than a lot of other problems we could have.
Anyway, it wasn’t really like last year.
If you look at the game flow from 2010 here, the game was really back and forth until the last couple minutes. I’d rather have a team capable of building leads in the first place, versus one that requires a surge at some point in the game,
"I try to shoot shots that I know are going to go in."
-Marcus Denmon
by ttt on Dec 23, 2011 3:22 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
anybody else christmas travelling tonight? i'm bored.
What do you have against the ring-tailed lemur?
by threadkiller on Dec 23, 2011 5:57 PM CST via mobile reply actions
In Jackson, Miss. Rockin MU gear like always
Saw an Ol Miss guy, he gave me a knowing nod like welcome y’all. Returned it. It was awesome
by MizzouRugby on Dec 23, 2011 7:38 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
that's cool.
another member of the rug fan club.
What do you have against the ring-tailed lemur?
by threadkiller on Dec 23, 2011 7:48 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
what are you doing there?
What do you have against the ring-tailed lemur?
by threadkiller on Dec 23, 2011 7:49 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
On the way to Nawlens for the cruise
by MizzouRugby on Dec 23, 2011 8:08 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
oh yeah. when do you embark?
What do you have against the ring-tailed lemur?
by threadkiller on Dec 23, 2011 8:38 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Tomorrow sometime
Still hoping the game will be on a tv somewhere, but we will see. Coming back with some Cuban stoagies though. That might make up for it
by MizzouRugby on Dec 23, 2011 8:47 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
well i hope you have a real good time.
merry christmas, rug!
What do you have against the ring-tailed lemur?
by threadkiller on Dec 23, 2011 9:02 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Just finished mine
Hello again KansasMissouri City!
We are DAVIDSON City!
by Gaknar on Dec 23, 2011 9:43 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I made it to MN
Never flown on Christmas weekend before. The wife and I ate the lettuce and checked a bag. Which is good because there was no room in any of the bins. Just madness.
Upholding fine Mizzou traditions in Maryland.
MvP, RoC official Nemesis
by Ausgiano on Dec 24, 2011 8:50 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
You should've taken your personal jet.
What were you slumming it?
Never forget Wolf Island, or pie! #AHAMF, it's vaguely sordid.
by Spider_Monkey on Dec 24, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions

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