Mizzou Basketball Coaching Search: Kim Anderson
by Andy--01 on Mar 26, 2011 11:22 AM CDT
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Image via The Savitar[From Bill C.: I was weighing whether to write this or not, but then Andy did for me, so ... hooray! Promoted to the front page.]
It's inevitable - every time the Missouri job comes up, Kim Anderson's name becomes a rallying cry for those who want to get in touch with the glory days of Norm. I'm not saying this is a bad thing. Heck, it might be possible that he'd be a great coach at the D1 level. Even though it's unlikely that Mizzou would ever hire someone directly from D2 without some low D1 experience, I want to take a look, in the same type of format that we're looking at for the other candidates.
Age: 55 (will be 56 before the end of the 2010-2011 school year).
Career Record: 203-74 at University of Central Missouri in 8 years
Accomplishments: In 9 years at CMSU/UCM, Anderson has lead the Mules to 3 Regular Season MIAA Championships (1 outright, 2 shared) and 3 MIAA Tourney Championships. The mules have gone to the NCAA D-II Tournament 5 times, advancing to the Final Four twice (and one additional Sweet 16 appearance). Before his arrival, the Mules had advanced to the NCAA D-II Tourney only 8 times since their 1984 National Championship, and had not won the MIAA since the 1984 season.
Before he was a head coach: Played in College for Mizzou, and was named the 1976-77 Big 8 POY. Drafted in the 7th round by the Bucks and played 1 season in the NBA for the TrailBlazers. Assistant coach for Norm Stewart from 1982-85 and 1991-99 and at Baylor from 85-91.
Ties to the Midwest: From Sedalia, played college ball for Mizzou, and has spent all but 6 years of his coaching career in the state of Missouri, the other 6 years was at a future Big 12 school.
Ties to Missouri: See above.
Does he see this as a destination job?: I'd bet your life on it. I can think of two explanations for why he's still at UCM after the success he's had. 1. No one at the D1 level is willing to take a chance on a first-time D1 coach in his mid-50s. 2. He's not willing to leave Missouri.
Can he recruit?: That's really tough to answer for a D-II guy, but let's look at the roster. Of the 15 players on UCM's roster, 12 of them are transfers from other schools (7 of those from JUCOs.) The other 3 players are from Ozark, Knob Knoster and Warrensburg. Take that for what it's worth, but it's pretty common in the MIAA to have a lot of JUCO students - Anderson appears to rely on it slightly more than his counterparts, which may be a red flag - or maybe he's doing what is necessary to be successful.
This Year's Recruits: I'm just gonna skip this, because it's unlikely that a player who is going to UCM would warrant a scholarship at Mizzou.
KENPOM doesn't track D2, but we can still look at KenPom's Four Factors (since Posessions are a little difficult to track, let's look at BCI instead of TO%
For the 2010-2011 season (2006-07 FF and MIAA Champ team in bold):
Effective FG%: UCM: 38.3% 39.7% Opponents: 35.7% 36.5%
BCI: UCM: 1.44 1.83 Opponents: 1.45 1.02
Offensive Rebounding%: UCM: 36.9% 37.7% Opponents: 28.4% 28.2%
FreeThrow Rate: UCM 32.8% 37.3% Opponents: 27.3% 23.7%
I included his best team for an idea at what his ideal splits would be.
Obviously, the shooting% is really low, but it's a D2 team. Obviously, they don't rack up impressive BCI numbers (relative to what Mike Anderson's teams were capable of). They rebound pretty well (their numbers would put them in top-50 of D1 on both offense and defense). They're average at drawing fouls (compared to D1 - 150 to 300 range), but fantastic at avoiding fouls (27.3% is top-15 Defensive FTR in D1).
Would he come here?: Again, I would bet your life on it. His salary in 2002 when he started at UCM was $95K, so he'd be an inexpensive option that would get rewarded AFTER he earned it, rather than because of potential.
Thoughts: Sounds like a Norm Stewart team that relies on JUCO kids rather than players from Detroit. Look, it's not gonna happen. No way in hell is it going to happen. A coach simply does not go from D2 directly to a Big-6 conference job. Not saying he would be a terrible game-day coach, but the risk that would be undertaken from a recruiting standpoint could bury Missouri at the bottom of the conference for years.
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Knowing how the Quin era turned out
I’d have liked to seen what he could’ve done as Mizzou’s coach instead, but hindsight is 20/20 and there’s no guarantee he’d have done any better than Quin.
If he was going to be hired
he would have moved from the Assistant Position directly into the Head Coaching position at that time.
To me, the only thing that has ever given credence to the “Mike Alden forced Norm Stewart out” belief is that Kim Anderson wasn’t given a 2nd look as coach. As my cousin (who was a high-ranking member of the administration (University, not Athletic Department) basically said “There is no way in hell Norm Stewart would have been forced out without the whole world knowing about it”. Granted, I don’t think Norm would have intentionally attacked his program in the media like that, but he knew Norm reasonably well.
Rational Mizzou Talk, whether you like us or not.
D2 to Horizon League to Big 10
A coach simply does not go from D2 directly to a Big-6 conference job.
And yes, he was in his early 50s when he got his first D1 shot, but I just don’t see Kim Anderson going from D2 directly to the Big 12. A stop at a school like UMKC or SMSU would have to happen first.
Rational Mizzou Talk, whether you like us or not.
It's not like the Horizon League is anything in D-1
Or that Bo Ryan did anything while there
I asked Atch about this the other day...
His response was, basically, that the situation at hand does as much for recruiting as any given coach does. So Anderson’s tendencies do not necessarily belie what he would do here at Mizzou. I can buy that to a degree. But … it would be a “low margin for error” hire … maybe it works out like Bo Ryan did, but the downside — the “team full of Matt Rowans” that I have referenced before, plus the potentially awkward “how to fire a Norm disciple” situation — is relatively significant. It is certainly fun to envision a Kim Anderson/Anthony Peeler/Doug Smith staff, but while the reception from throughout Missouri would be great, there is no way to know whether it could be even remotely successful. (And obviously, since he didn’t get a serious look in 1999, he probably won’t now, which means this is all moot.)
Given the response...
… I figured it would be several decades before Missouri fans welcomed someone named “Anderson” into this position again.
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great guy, good coach
i’d be ok with hiring kim and hoping he can pull in the kids. he would definitely need an ace recruiter on staff tho
m-i-z... z-o-u!
How much recruiting did Anderson do when he was here in the 90's?
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i'm sure kim did his fair share
but rich daly was known as ‘dr detroit’, for good reason. he always had a little change in his pocket if you know what i mean… just kidding.. but seriously…
i remember kim as more of an x-and-o type of guy rather than a recruiter. i think he also coached the big men pretty well
m-i-z... z-o-u!
I am really going to go out on a limb here. What is Bob Sundvold doing these days? He was at UMKC for awhile, an Assistant at ISU, and the KC Knights Coach until the league folded.
After he left CMSU, he went to UMKC from 96-2000
Then, he was an assistant at Iowa State from 2001-2004 (Eustachy left after the 2003 season).
He was GM of the ABA’s KC Knights in 2004-2005 (then, the team folded)
He then spent 2 years as a color analyst for ESPN Regional Big 12 telecasts (05-07)
He then was on Toledo’s coaching staff for a few years, under HC Gene Cross (who resigned before this season)
I can’t find anything from this most recent season. I think Bob Sundvold would be a horrible choice for head coach at a serious D1 basketball program.
Rational Mizzou Talk, whether you like us or not.
I want to like Kim Anderson.
I really, really do. But what sticks out to me is that after Norm stopped coaching, he was out of coaching for ~4 seasons. Was he looking for other coaching jobs? He worked out of the state before, if he was serious about coaching D-1 I would have expected to see another coaching job fill that gap.
"When among evil companions, try to fit in." - Wild Bill Donovan
From MulesBasketballCamp.com
Prior to accepting the post at Central Missouri, the 52-year-old Anderson spent two seasons as assistant commissioner of the Big 12 Conference in Dallas, Texas. He was originally hired by the conference in July of 1999 as Director of Basketball Operations. With the Big 12, his duties included organizing and directing the men’s postseason basketball tournament, serving as the conference liaison for the men’s basketball coaches, and overseeing the men’s and women’s officiating programs. Prior to accepting his position with the Big 12, Anderson served two stints as assistant basketball coach at his alma mater, the University of Missouri. Under his college coach, the legendary Norm Stewart, he was a part of two Big 8 regular season championships (1983, 1994), a Big 8 Tournament title (1993), six trips to the NCAA Division I Tournament and an Elite Eight appearance in 1994.
Rational Mizzou Talk, whether you like us or not.
Would like to know...
…why it’s acceptable, generally speaking, for an unknown / unproven assistant coach at a D 1 school, even if it’s a low level D 1, to be hired as a D 1 head coach but not an individual with proven success at both D 1 and D 2? Seems to me that K Anderson has more to offer than any assistant D 1 coach. Quick look at credentials; (1) a D1 head assistant coach under N Stewart, (2) a knowledge of how the “system” works – Big 12 asst commissioner (3) has established a record setting win record – five NCAA D II tournaments in past six years including final four appearances and conference titles as a head coach at a D 2 school (4) played in the pros (5) Hall of Famer at Mizzou (6) scholastic credentials galore (7) well respected on and off the court by all accounts – see interviews, articles, etc (8) dedicated work ethic and (9) he did recruit well for N Steward as did R Daly.
I mention # 6, 7, 8 and 9 only because M Alden says those are the four characteristics he is looking for in his new hire. I doubt Alden’s authenticity but what the heck he said it.
I do believe one thing: M Alden will not hire anyone associated with N Stewart – just ask G Link or J Sunvold – can’t think of a reason why other than N Steward dwarfed Alden and his position as AD – ego perhaps?
And yeah, K Anderson is a really good X and O guy – you win games that way…
But back to my original question: someone explain why an assistant D1 coach gets more consideration than a person with both D1 coaching experience and D 2 head coaching experience. I can’t get the fear of another Q Snyder assistant D 1 coach to D 1 head coach out of my mind…
First, it seems pretty obvious that the next hire will NOT be an assistant at any level
it’s going to be someone who has shown that they can run a program.
While I don’t disagree with your premise – that (D2 head coaching experience + D1 asst coach experience) > (D1 asst coach experience), I do think that the fact that in the case of a current D1 assistant vs. a current D2 head coach, the biggest factor is recruiting. X’s and O’s will win you games against teams who are equally as talented as you, and preparation and teaching will win you a few games against teams who are slightly more talented than you. However, recruiting shrinks the pool of teams that are more talented than you. A guy who has been recruiting (as an assistant) and evaluating the prospects for a school like, say, Duke is more than likely more prepared to step into the recruiting role of HC than a guy who has been doing it for a school like UCM.
I’m not saying that Anderson wouldn’t be able to recruit. I don’t know the mind of a high school basketball star, so I couldn’t guess what he brings to the table or takes off it. I am saying that it’d be a huge risk.
But, again, for this vacancy, we’re not talking about a D1 assistant vs. a D2 head coach. We’re talking about an (almost certainly) young D1 head coach vs. an older D2 head coach. In that comparison, there is an obvious advantage. Alden learned his lesson with Quin – and, to be fair to Alden, most accounts are that he wanted Self, but was strong-armed into Quin by his benefactors.
Rational Mizzou Talk, whether you like us or not.
Am I remembering correctly...
…that Quin had never been a head coach?
Alden learned his lesson with Quin – and, to be fair to Alden, most accounts are that he wanted Self, but was strong-armed into Quin by his benefactors.
Let’s hope his benefactors learned their lesson, too.
Probably true enough
so what does that say about Alden’s strength with him having the same benefactors now and this new search? Like most I want a good coach – maybe even a great coach, eventually – so “who” is going to pick the new guy? Alden or benefactors? Not much love for Alden after these last two coaching picks. Maybe the fans should pick the new guy – bet we’d have done as well as to date as Alden / benefactors. Don’t get riled just a little – emphasis on little – humor here.
Mike Alden's track record since the Quin mess...
…has been very good. I doubt he’s going to be strong-armed by anyone these days.
Last two coaching picks? Earleywine and Pingeton?
or do you mean Anderson and Snyder?
Snyder was a disaster, no doubt, and it nearly cost Alden his job. However, the only negative about the Anderson hire is that he left. But, 5 years of relatively scandal-free (the few scandals that popped up were handled swiftly and very well), mostly GOOD basketball and a conference tournament title and an Elite Eight + Sweet Sixteen appearance is, by all accounts, an incredibly successful hire. Sure, you could argue that he’s not as good of a coach that we all though after 2009, but that doesn’t make him a bad hire by any measure.
As far as the pressure that a 2nd year Athletic Director felt from a big-money donor who was essentially promising to build a new arena for us, I’d think he could be forgiven for that – especially considering the heights that he’s taken the overall Athletic Department to, athletically, academically and financially. It seems pretty clear that he’s learned from the mistakes that he has made, and while he hasn’t brought in a slew of conference or national championships, he is by all other measures an EXCELLENT athletic director.
For instance, Joe Castiglione at OU – if he had still been at Missouri and not OU, do you really think that Missouri would have won multiple football titles by now? I don’t think so. There are 2 types of successful Athletic Directors – Mike Alden and Lew Perkins. I’ll take Mike Alden and a clean program that is successful but not winning titles, over Lew Perkins who is dirty but brings in a strong program.
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Are you related to Kim Anderson
Color me skeptical, but you just registered, and made the same comment in two different places.
As always, SUPER late to this party.... (work)
Here’s my latest thought:
If Mizzou were to go after Shaka or Cuonzo, hopefully in the $900k range (optimistic, maybe)… Why wouldn’t they throw Kim Anderson $300k to take Watkin’s place as Top Asst Head Coach? Let him get his D1 shoes back on, get him back on the recruiting trail, and have him helping the x’s and o’s during BCS conference basketball.
It would be grooming our next coach (a Former Tiger) to be ready for the next internal vacancy. Add Peeler as the 2nd Asst coach and talk about “loyalty”.
I think this might make TOO much sense.
Bet me!
My only problem with that is
You’ve got to let the new coach know that the staff is his. If you’ve got an alum that has shown interest, let him know that person has requested an interview, but you’ve got to let your underlings do their jobs.
Rational Mizzou Talk, whether you like us or not.
I agree with that.
As someone coming in from a Mid-Major, I could see where I wouldn’t want to walk into the AD’s handpicked lineup of staff… but I feel like getting a guy like KIM Anderson (almost as a “goodwill ambassador” to the fanbase) wouldn’t be an awful idea.
Bet me!
by TigerBartender on Mar 27, 2011 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions
I think it would be smart for the new coach to hire someone like Kim Anderson
or AP or Doug Smith – if he really wanted to connect with the history of the program. One of the things that makes the Cardinals such a well-run organization (from the fan-friendliness aspect) is their attempts to get the old legends involved as much as possible in the ballpark atmosphere.
Rational Mizzou Talk, whether you like us or not.
BUT, while it would be smart
it shouldn’t be a requirement.
Rational Mizzou Talk, whether you like us or not.
Again, agreed.
I’m a fan, not involved in the hiring decisions. Armchair AD is a great gig. Always right, no repercussions when we’re wrong :)
But it IS a smart move!
Bet me!
by TigerBartender on Mar 27, 2011 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
There's a difference
between involved in “ballpark atmosphere” and running the scouting for a MLB franchise.
Anderson is going to be 56 years old in May
Peeler I can definitely see for that type of role, but forcing Anderson on the new coach when he’s gonna be contemplating retirement by the time he’d have a chance at the head job doesn’t seem like it’s worth the trouble.
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"What's misunderstood about you?"
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by Transmogrified Tiger on Mar 27, 2011 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions
This.
If the new guy has success he’s (hopefully) not going anywhere for a while and Kim Anderson isn’t getting any younger. I like Kim Anderson and as much as I would like a Mizzou guy to be our coach, I don’t know if it’s the right time. After Quin when we were in panic mode would have made more sense.
Some people say "hate" is a strong word. If you're talking about kansas, it's not strong enough.
A lot of great points here....
I also want to want him. I really do. I’m a Central Missouri alum and had a blast watching Mules games for 4 years. The idea of a Mizzou alum coaching at Mizzou is fantastic but the reality of it is that its a huge risk and really just for the sake of loyalty. Take away his direct tie to Mizzou: is he the right guy for the job? No. Too many unknowns for a guy that has not coached and recruited at a higher level to jump straight to a head coaching job at Missouri.
by brandonh981 on Mar 27, 2011 9:47 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Someone's thinking with their head not their heart :)
Emotions cannot enter into this decision. Luckily it won’t be made by a fan vote.
If it was a fan vote...
…we would already have Coach K.
"Smell the perfume but don't drink it because it might kill you." Erin Andrews recounting advise from Gary Pinkel
Or Rick Majerus
having been hired after he was seen eating ribs at Buckinghams back in April 99.
Rational Mizzou Talk, whether you like us or not.
Well, the MSU job just opened up...
if Anderson seriously wants to coach in D-1, there’s an opening right there for him, still in-state.
"When among evil companions, try to fit in." - Wild Bill Donovan
I would like to note that a friend of mine heard on STL Sports Radio
that Coach Kim Anderson has no interest in a D1 job. He and his family like the pace of Division 2, and do not wish to add the additional stress of a job like Missouri.
So (assuming this is true).. maybe Alden is fully aware of this, and that’s why Kim Anderson has never gotten a serious look.
Rational Mizzou Talk, whether you like us or not.
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