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Around SBN: Full Coverage of 2012 Coke 600

And in the end, the hate you take is equal to the hate you make

COLUMBIA, MO - FEBRUARY 09: The Missouri Tigers bench celebrates as the winning basket falls through the hoop in a win over the Kansas Jayhawks 62-60 on February 9, 2009 at Mizzou Arena in Columbia, Missouri. (Photo by Jamie Squire/Getty Images)

Sometimes the fates write poetry. Sometimes you get the game that you deserve. Three months ago, no one foresaw that Missouri and Kansas would each enter Saturday night’s contest with single-digit rankings. But it feels right, doesn’t it? After 106 uninterrupted years of conflict, the ancient rivals will meet in Columbia for the last time and for first place. And it will conjure echoes of what has made the Border War so meaningful and why it will be so hard to let go.

This game will be the other bookend in a set that goes back to the beginning of basketball time. In Missouri’s first season, the Tigers hosted Kansas for two games and won them both. They were the last games coached by James Naismith, leaving Missouri 2-0 all-time against the man who invented the sport. That’s a good way to start.

And this is a good way to end. On national television, hosting ESPN’s Gameday, in the most meaningful meeting since the last time Missouri held a number four ranking when hosting Kansas. That was in 1990, when Kansas entered with the nation’s number one ranking and the Tigers left with it. The rivalry has been terrific when played for pride. It has been transcendent when played for more.

Star-divide

Not long after Naismith made his lone appearance, two original members of the Basketball Hall of Fame put their stamp on the feud. In 1920, Missouri’s Walter Meanwell and KU’s Phog Allen coached against each other in a pair of games in Rothwell Gymnasium, the Tigers’ original home. In the first game, when Meanwell stood to complain about the violent play of Jayhawk Howard "Scrubby" Laslett, Allen leapt up and shouted "Sit down, you big boob!"

Meanwell didn’t respond, but his team did. Missouri won by fifteen that day and by eighteen the next.

Those games marked the introduction of the thing that has given this series its distinctive color: an immensely fulfilling hatred.

Lest you be confused, we’re talking about sports hate. If you truly hate someone because of their alma mater or favorite team, you are deeply unwell. But sports hate is cathartic and cleansing, a way exorcise the cancerous spots on our souls. Living in Kansas City, I’ve developed many lasting friendships with members of the opposition through a deep, nuanced, richly textured mutual antipathy.

As the book says, to hate like this is to be happy forever.

So if you’re headed to the game, be loud but don’t be loathsome. The Jayhawks may deserve your hate, but they also deserve your grudging respect, because they’re one-half of a great story. And this story is coming to an end.

Sure, there was that one time, in 1961, when sports hate gave way to something much more sinister


But for the most part, the blows landed have been metaphorical, big shots made on the big stage, moments that have made myths out of men.

And though Kansas holds the all-time edge in games played in Columbia, when there has been magic, it has almost always been made by Mizzou (exception to the rule: David Padgett’s buzzer-beater to close the HearnesCenter in 2004).

For me, the hate affair began on February 11, 1987, when Larry Brown, Danny Manning and the Jayhawks came to town, and my fellow freshman Lee Coward sank a three that beat Kansas and helped propel the Tigers to an unexpected Big Eight title:


Three years later, Coward was a senior and one of four Tigers to score at least 20 points in a 95-87 win over top-ranked Kansas that pushed Missouri to number one in the polls. A fine gift for Norm Stewart’s fifty-fifth birthday (you have to wait for this one a bit):


Maybe you prefer the biggest upset of them all, when undefeated and undefeatable Kansas visited on February 4, 1997, fifteen years to the day before this Saturday’s game. The Jayhawks, at 22-0, had three All Americans. But the Tigers, just 11-10, had Corey Tate:


After all those nail-biters, sometimes it’s nice to win in a rout. If Jeff Boschee is reading (hi, Jeff!), he might want to cover his eyes at this Clarence Gilbert montage of sharpshooting insanity, which buried Kansas in 2000:


Thomas Gardner was the star on the floor in 2006, scoring 40 points. But the Tiger fans were the stars of the game, as they effectively fractured Christian Moody’s psyche when he needed to make just one of two free throws to win it for Kansas:


And then there was 2009, the night that Missouri basketball was reborn courtesy of Mr. Big Shot:


We can only hope that Saturday gives us the same kind of memory. If the fates have their way, it will.

There’s much to like about Missouri’s move to the SEC, but you won’t see the likes of this sordid, hateful, glorious rivalry again any time soon. It takes a long time, many battles and a multitude of scars to sustain a blood feud. Tiger fans can try to project their feelings toward Kansas onto Kentucky or Arkansas, but there’s no guarantee that those schools will hate them back, at least not for a long time. And unrequited hate is as sad as unrequited love.

Maybe one day, if we’re lucky, we’ll find hate again.

Comment 234 comments  |  24 recs  | 

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Proud resident of Kansas City MO

by TigerChief on Feb 2, 2012 12:14 PM CST reply actions  

good work dodging the point.

you’re the best.

Busting Bill C since September 19, 2011 10:19 CST, 8:19 PDT.

by mizzou2396 on Feb 2, 2012 12:31 PM CST up reply actions  

thomas gardner

what a shame he left when he did.

by rg643 on Feb 2, 2012 12:25 PM CST reply actions  

Its weird but I just can't get into the nostalgia of this rivalry anymore.

I am excited about this game Saturday and this season and would love to see the Tigers win the conference our last year in it but it being the last meeting in Columbia has really no special or elevated meeting to me.

I’ve already settled on the fact that we are moving on and walking away from this conference rivalry and am eager to just get it over with, (hopefully with a sweep.)

KU is nothing more than a dumped idiotic ex-girlfriend who was a tramp to begin with. They can slobber all over K-State from now on and pass the herpes on to the Wildcats while they are at it.

by M Krip on Feb 2, 2012 12:36 PM CST reply actions  

The hate over on RTC is pretty weak this year

"You have to remember, basketball to the University of Miami is like football to the University of Kansas." - Kim English

by Gaknar on Feb 2, 2012 2:14 PM CST up reply actions  

thats two of us

I make bad decisions and people think my roller skating is hot.
#CakeForLife

by BillSelfsToupee on Feb 2, 2012 12:50 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think you can actually jump on this boat

considering who you married and all.

Busting Bill C since September 19, 2011 10:19 CST, 8:19 PDT.

by mizzou2396 on Feb 2, 2012 12:51 PM CST up reply actions  

I think that only reinforces my unwellitude

I make bad decisions and people think my roller skating is hot.
#CakeForLife

by BillSelfsToupee on Feb 2, 2012 12:51 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

I don't think you can claim

that you think.

/try the veal

Busting Bill C since September 19, 2011 10:19 CST, 8:19 PDT.

by mizzou2396 on Feb 2, 2012 12:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Well poppycock

I make bad decisions and people think my roller skating is hot.
#CakeForLife

by BillSelfsToupee on Feb 2, 2012 1:00 PM CST up reply actions  

it's the first step.

Busting Bill C since September 19, 2011 10:19 CST, 8:19 PDT.

by mizzou2396 on Feb 2, 2012 12:50 PM CST up reply actions  

dunno, never made it past the 1st

Busting Bill C since September 19, 2011 10:19 CST, 8:19 PDT.

by mizzou2396 on Feb 2, 2012 1:02 PM CST up reply actions  

keep trying

Advocating for the "Snarkbone" since 2012
Rock M Nation

by The Beef on Feb 2, 2012 1:03 PM CST up reply actions  

I (would) get by with a little help from my friends*

if said friends existed

Busting Bill C since September 19, 2011 10:19 CST, 8:19 PDT.

by mizzou2396 on Feb 2, 2012 1:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Internet friends dont count?

/notsoquietlyweapinginthecorner

I make bad decisions and people think my roller skating is hot.
#CakeForLife

by BillSelfsToupee on Feb 2, 2012 1:07 PM CST up reply actions  

if it weren't for internet friends

I wouldn’t be able to lose so much time during the day.

Upholding fine Mizzou traditions in Maryland.
MvP, RoC official Nemesis

by Ausgiano on Feb 2, 2012 1:08 PM CST up reply actions  

that right there

is better than going green.

Busting Bill C since September 19, 2011 10:19 CST, 8:19 PDT.

by mizzou2396 on Feb 2, 2012 1:57 PM CST up reply actions  

I greened it

cause it’s funny. I think.

Upholding fine Mizzou traditions in Maryland.
MvP, RoC official Nemesis

by Ausgiano on Feb 2, 2012 2:28 PM CST up reply actions  

they count

but TK told me that I didn’t have any of those. And The, who was my best friend in the whole wide world, abuses me like Amy Winehouse abused drugs.

Busting Bill C since September 19, 2011 10:19 CST, 8:19 PDT.

by mizzou2396 on Feb 2, 2012 1:21 PM CST up reply actions  

your best friend

is an article?

/missing the point

Upholding fine Mizzou traditions in Maryland.
MvP, RoC official Nemesis

by Ausgiano on Feb 2, 2012 2:27 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

well played good sir.

Busting Bill C since September 19, 2011 10:19 CST, 8:19 PDT.

by mizzou2396 on Feb 2, 2012 2:59 PM CST up reply actions  

RUSH

and i hope we beat them and the studens rush for one last taste of victory, i dont care what the rankings are!!! MIZ!!!

A Missouri Tiger, an American Outlaw, Fire Section 8 Supporter, Bears STH, White Sox, Bulls, Blackhawks, USA Soccer... basically your worst sports nightmare in a Woman's body...

by Mari Daly on Feb 2, 2012 2:35 PM CST up reply actions  

change of heart

thats way better

A Missouri Tiger, an American Outlaw, Fire Section 8 Supporter, Bears STH, White Sox, Bulls, Blackhawks, USA Soccer... basically your worst sports nightmare in a Woman's body...

by Mari Daly on Feb 2, 2012 2:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Perfect

"Gentlemen, this is a football."-Vince Lombardi
"Slow down coach, you're going too fast."-Max McGee

by MUJD on Feb 2, 2012 4:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Agreed.

It’s a nice juxtaposition, however, of the relative merit of the two blogs.

And the two schools.

And the two states?

by MU'97 on Feb 2, 2012 1:34 PM CST up reply actions  

I am not going over there...

at all anymore.

I made that decision after the childish crap went down.

Samething goes with BOTC.

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Feb 2, 2012 1:46 PM CST up reply actions  

I appreciate your reply over there

Do you still live around warrensburg?

I make bad decisions and people think my roller skating is hot.
#CakeForLife

by BillSelfsToupee on Feb 2, 2012 2:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Gotcha

I unfortunately grew up no far from the burg.

I make bad decisions and people think my roller skating is hot.
#CakeForLife

by BillSelfsToupee on Feb 2, 2012 2:10 PM CST up reply actions  

whereabouts?

our farm is on the south side of 50, west of Warrensburg between the old Amish furniture store and the BP(?) gas station

I believe in the The Black & Gold Standard

by Logan Hill on Feb 2, 2012 2:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Between odessa and pittsville

I make bad decisions and people think my roller skating is hot.
#CakeForLife

by BillSelfsToupee on Feb 2, 2012 2:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Football?

You know they don’t have a team, right? Their fans only come out of hiding from November to mid-March and then go right back into hiding and talking about championships from the 20s.

by P_Tiger on Feb 2, 2012 2:03 PM CST up reply actions  

I stand corrected!

I make bad decisions and people think my roller skating is hot.
#CakeForLife

by BillSelfsToupee on Feb 2, 2012 2:04 PM CST up reply actions  

However

Kevin James is far too skinny and too decent of a person to be their coach. Sorry, my ‘sports hate’ took over.

by P_Tiger on Feb 2, 2012 2:15 PM CST up reply actions  

See this comment would have been green an hour ago over at RCT.

Now, here at RMN, BST has to wait until he feel validation.

Delated gratification is what it’s all about gentelmen/women.

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Feb 2, 2012 2:36 PM CST up reply actions  

thank you

I make bad decisions and people think my roller skating is hot.
#CakeForLife

by BillSelfsToupee on Feb 2, 2012 2:37 PM CST up reply actions  

When I go read their blog comments

I rec and green the self hate posts over there. Any time they start complaining about their coach or a player or talk about how bad a game is going I like to reinforce that opinion as acceptable. I don’t ever post though, just rec the hell out of the negativity when I browse.

by M Krip on Feb 2, 2012 9:19 PM CST up reply actions  

OMG NORM STEWART IS SO BALD!

AND WHY WON’T HE SIT DOWN? SIT DOWN, NORM!

by MU'97 on Feb 2, 2012 2:26 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Ah...Gilbert at Hearnes

I was there for the 2OT game, but I never heard Hearnes louder than it was when the 4th went down. Good times…thanks for that.

Advocating for the "Snarkbone" since 2012
Rock M Nation

by The Beef on Feb 2, 2012 1:03 PM CST reply actions  

Yeah, classic moment.

The 2008-09 victory gives me chills, too. “I can’t hear a thing you’re saying.”

by MU'97 on Feb 2, 2012 1:35 PM CST up reply actions  

That game

was the first MU-kU game I went to live. Easily in the Top 2 live sporting experiences in my life.

Coming Home Newcastle!

"Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy." --Frank Sinatra

by Other Side of the Pillow on Feb 2, 2012 1:54 PM CST up reply actions  

After reading this post

I went back up to watch the clip. Now I was excited prior to this point about Saturday, but holy crap I CAN’T EFFING WAIT!

by Saximus on Feb 2, 2012 2:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Not really...
But it feels right, doesn’t it?

Given that Missouri is rarely ranked anywhere near the top 5.

by hiphopopotamus on Feb 2, 2012 1:36 PM CST reply actions  

But that being said...

Nice write-up. This game doesn’t feel nearly as big to me as I suppose it does to most of you. But that’s mostly my fault. I entered this season with modest expectations (by KU standards) and have only adjusted them upward very slightly. EvI do think both teams have earned their lofty ranking, but I think it’s more on default than merit, because neither seems to be up to the top tier caliber we’re used to. Hope we can steal this one anyway. Rock Chalk!

by hiphopopotamus on Feb 2, 2012 1:39 PM CST up reply actions  

I would both suspect and hope...

… you guys would start to get the same feeling as the final game in Lawrence approaches and your student body and alumni begin to realize it could be the last MU/KU game they will ever see at home. That’s something that’s been institutionalized for generations, which is why you can understand the sentiment.

RockMNation.com (@rockmnation)
Fighting mob mentality since 2007

by RPT on Feb 2, 2012 1:42 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I agree. Very well done writeup on the game and the rivalry

I agree with hiphop that the game doesn’t mean as much to me this year. I never thought I’d say that about a Border War featuring both teams in the top ten, but knowing that the rivalry won’t continue seems to have dampened my passion for it even before it’s gone. I’ve always thoroughly enjoyed the rivalry, and I’ll be sad when it’s gone, but I guess there’s no use crying over spilled milk.

The one thing that makes me care deeply about this game is continuing the conference championship streak. If we lose in Columbia and the return game in AFH is for an 8th straight conference championship, I’ll be fired up regardless of where the two teams will be next year.

by KSinDC on Feb 2, 2012 2:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Stop.

"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010

by ghtd36 on Feb 2, 2012 2:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, it is hate week.

What’s a little trolling among bitter soon-to-be-ex rivals?

by MU'97 on Feb 2, 2012 9:01 PM CST up reply actions  

I wouldnt mind some trolling

I have a few new recipes to hand out

I make bad decisions and people think my roller skating is hot.
#CakeForLife

by BillSelfsToupee on Feb 2, 2012 9:02 PM CST up reply actions  

I know you guys feel that way

I don’t see any use trying to persuade you the other way.

I wish we were still playing a home-and-home against MU instead of TCU. I suppose you guys would probably prefer a home and home with KU instead of UK. It isn’t going to work out that way. I’ll leave it at that instead of getting into who’s to blame.

by KSinDC on Feb 2, 2012 3:05 PM CST up reply actions  

no. uk will be better by far.

i don’t live around any uk fans.

Lamentations 3:22-23

by threadkiller on Feb 2, 2012 3:40 PM CST up reply actions  

My first in-person kU game, Freshman year...

the Gilbert game above. The first one will always be the best, I guess.

Although I’ll never forget ZT in 2009.

by CBonerfied on Feb 2, 2012 2:03 PM CST reply actions  

Excellent Piece

I was fortunate to have seen the 1990 win in Lawrence and the 1997 win in Columbia. Both are memories I’ll cherish for life. Say every day that I won’t miss them, but I know deep down I’m wrong. Go Tigers! Get this last one at home!

Go Tigers!

by gvtiger92 on Feb 2, 2012 2:14 PM CST reply actions  

It's too bad Ron Franklin is such a sexist

because he’s the one common thread on the PBP for all of the games in the 2000s. I never thought I’d say that I miss his call, but after hearing about the Honey (Holly) Badger on Big Monday for the last six or so weeks, I’m ready to make that statement.

by CBonerfied on Feb 2, 2012 2:26 PM CST reply actions  

+1.

"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010

by ghtd36 on Feb 2, 2012 2:42 PM CST reply actions  

By the by...

…God, wherefore art thou, Thomas Gardner?

"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010

by ghtd36 on Feb 2, 2012 2:45 PM CST reply actions  

According to wikipedia, he is playing in Belgium

I make bad decisions and people think my roller skating is hot.
#CakeForLife

by BillSelfsToupee on Feb 2, 2012 2:48 PM CST up reply actions  

According to English...

ghtd36 technically asked “Why are you, Thomas Gardner”

/things I learned from Atch in 2008

RockMNation.com (@rockmnation)
Fighting mob mentality since 2007

by RPT on Feb 2, 2012 2:50 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I dont need none of that there englush

But, go Kimmeh!

I make bad decisions and people think my roller skating is hot.
#CakeForLife

by BillSelfsToupee on Feb 2, 2012 2:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Just to crush the dreams of Christian Moody.

I thought that’s exactly what you meant.

RockMNation.com (@rockmnation)
Fighting mob mentality since 2007

by RPT on Feb 2, 2012 3:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh no.

Now we’re screwed.

"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010

by ghtd36 on Feb 2, 2012 3:18 PM CST up reply actions  

second!

all those in favor, say aye

Upholding fine Mizzou traditions in Maryland.
MvP, RoC official Nemesis

by Ausgiano on Feb 2, 2012 3:53 PM CST up reply actions  

thirded

I guess…

Does he also collect spores, molds and fungus?

Proud kanscist
#teamchilipie

by leeaustex on Feb 2, 2012 3:53 PM CST up reply actions  

so, Juliet is really asking

why are you Romeo?

Upholding fine Mizzou traditions in Maryland.
MvP, RoC official Nemesis

by Ausgiano on Feb 2, 2012 3:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes

Why must you exist, and tempt me so, and thus let blossom a love that shall kill us both?

by MU'97 on Feb 2, 2012 3:10 PM CST up reply actions  

So a really terrible movie remake can be made.

And then another movie with Jet Li. That had no Juliet.

"When among evil companions, try to fit in." - Wild Bill Donovan

Rocky Balboa once told me, "Nothing is real if you don't believe in who you are."

by Kpz1234 on Feb 2, 2012 5:26 PM CST up reply actions  

A clearer way to say it is

“Why are you Montague.”

Remember, the Montagues and Capulets had street fights in the middle of the day.

by Babbalynski on Feb 2, 2012 3:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Indeed.

She is rueing the fact that the man she loves is Romeo, a member of a rival family.

We all understand what being a Mizzou fan is like. That’s no excuse for being a douche.

by jaeger on Feb 2, 2012 3:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Here it is:

The main character is going to die. Probably suicide. The suicide is likely to have occurred because of hilarious misunderstanding.

Busting Bill C since September 19, 2011 10:19 CST, 8:19 PDT.

by mizzou2396 on Feb 2, 2012 3:27 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Rock M Nation: Doing Our Part to Destroy Western Civilization

"You have to remember, basketball to the University of Miami is like football to the University of Kansas." - Kim English

by Gaknar on Feb 2, 2012 3:17 PM CST up reply actions  

I am why you can't have nice things

Busting Bill C since September 19, 2011 10:19 CST, 8:19 PDT.

by mizzou2396 on Feb 2, 2012 3:21 PM CST up reply actions  

I have an English professor friend that teaches Shakespeare

she wouldn’t be pleased with this assessment.

Upholding fine Mizzou traditions in Maryland.
MvP, RoC official Nemesis

by Ausgiano on Feb 2, 2012 3:23 PM CST up reply actions  

probably she would hate it

but if you strip that story down, he died because she was an imbecile.

Busting Bill C since September 19, 2011 10:19 CST, 8:19 PDT.

by mizzou2396 on Feb 2, 2012 3:36 PM CST up reply actions  

This answer...

… will end up in at least 5,000 high school papers in the next year alone.

RockMNation.com (@rockmnation)
Fighting mob mentality since 2007

by RPT on Feb 2, 2012 3:18 PM CST up reply actions  

does this mean I can claim a GED?

Busting Bill C since September 19, 2011 10:19 CST, 8:19 PDT.

by mizzou2396 on Feb 2, 2012 3:20 PM CST up reply actions  

At least it will finally replace those Taylor Swift lyrics.

"You have to remember, basketball to the University of Miami is like football to the University of Kansas." - Kim English

by Gaknar on Feb 2, 2012 3:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Using the lyrics to "Mean"

so ascertain the meaning of why Juliet and Romeo couldn’t be together?

No wonder everyone hates us

Upholding fine Mizzou traditions in Maryland.
MvP, RoC official Nemesis

by Ausgiano on Feb 2, 2012 3:26 PM CST up reply actions  

have you noticed that mizzou fans are hated more

the more rmn grows in membership?

Lamentations 3:22-23

by threadkiller on Feb 2, 2012 3:45 PM CST up reply actions  

is that good

that you hate something that you started?

Upholding fine Mizzou traditions in Maryland.
MvP, RoC official Nemesis

by Ausgiano on Feb 2, 2012 3:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Its the epitome of a mizzou fan

isnt it?

I make bad decisions and people think my roller skating is hot.
#CakeForLife

by BillSelfsToupee on Feb 2, 2012 9:03 PM CST up reply actions  

“I envy us.”

"KU, you're nothing to me now. You're not a rival, you're not a friend. I don't want to know you or what you do."

by blackfin on Feb 2, 2012 9:02 PM CST up reply actions  

I hear that went Wikipedia went dark for that day . . .

RMN was the go-to source for high school English students everywhere.

by Michael Atchison on Feb 2, 2012 3:26 PM CST up reply actions  

It's been my source for everything I've written regardless of Wikipedia availability.

"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010

by ghtd36 on Feb 2, 2012 3:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Best answer

extra credit A+ summary of Romeo and Juliet in one sentence why does Romeo die surprise ending Shakespoiler

/SEO’d

by MU'97 on Feb 2, 2012 3:26 PM CST up reply actions  

HCGP wants us to leave the FB recruits alone until they get to campus

you hear that Rugby!

Upholding fine Mizzou traditions in Maryland.
MvP, RoC official Nemesis

by Ausgiano on Feb 2, 2012 3:38 PM CST reply actions  

What??

I didn’t do anything… yet

"I always heard there were three kinds of suns in Kansas, sunshine, sunflowers, and sons-of-bitches" -Josey Wales

by MizzouRugby on Feb 3, 2012 11:09 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

great piece- first of all-

second, I am finding myself befuddled by the KU argument that somehow playing us would be ‘charity’- that they have nothing to gain. Here are some of the reasons I think that attitude is silly:
1. Did KU not just turn down a $1 million guarantee from the Chiefs to play one more game at Arrowhead? Plus whatever the cost is of breaking that contract? Do they really think they would be getting that deal playing any other team there? MU is perfect in that we actually show up- and have interest in playing a frankly pitiful KU FB program at Arrowhead. Don’t see any other combo with KU being attractive enough that the Chiefs would shell out that $. And don’t you think goofy ol’ Charlie would love to play a game at a pro stadium? As much as he loves to push his NFL rep., would seem to be very attractive to him.
2. If publicity and attention are good things, how is dropping something that is quite the big deal around here a net plus? Are companies like HyVee going to be interested in doing something like their Border Showdown deal with some other team? These games are a fairly big deal every year, even if one or both teams kind of suck. You can’t manufacture that interest- it has been over a 100 years in the making.

I frankly don’t care that much right now that it’s ending- maybe that changes with time- but I can’t exactly get my head around how dropping the rivalry is beneficial to KU. It seems like it is 100% about wounded pride, and looks to me like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Combined with some odd need to please a fanbase that I seriously doubt would suddenly dump their fandom if they continued to play us. They could have instead played it as ‘we really don’t like those traitorous jerks, but we will be the bigger people and continue to play the series, because the best way to get back at them is to beat them, in their state.’

As I do despise them heartily (in a sports sense, of course), I’m actually pleased Zenger took the petulant ‘take our ball and go home’ attitude. I think it will also hurt their secondary sports- we have been pretty much cleaning their clock in those sports recently, but I find it difficult to believe that they are, for instance, going to sell more tickets to some random non-con opponent in Volleyball, say, instead of a non-con match against MU.

You often hear how programs want to ‘get into state X’ by playing a game in that state. I find it humorous that somehow cutting off all those connections to the state of Mo. will be a good thing for them long term.

But I can’t say I’m surprised- I’m not sure Mr. Zenger is the sharpest tool in the shed. The fact that they hired ol’ Charlie doesn’t exactly scream ‘I know what I’m doing’. I would bet a considerable sum of money that Mr. Weis doesn’t complete that 5 year commitment- probably because he doesn’t have much more success than Gill, and simply loses patience and bails back to where he wants to really be, which is sitting in the sun in Florida, eating something.

by tigertiger on Feb 2, 2012 4:12 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

They are under the mistaken impression

That our move to the SEC renders Mizzou entirely irrelevant in the KC area. SO they think they can “freeze us out” and keep Davidson Kansas City all to themselves.

No, it does not make logical sense. But they believe it nonetheless.

by MU'97 on Feb 2, 2012 4:22 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not a big fan of the freeze MU out of KC thinking

I think it’s obvious that MU will lose coverage in KC. They’re replacing games against KU and KSU with games against UGA and UF. Obviously that’s going to result in less local media attention. They won’t be irrelevant, just less relevant. But if it helps KU to play them, I think the benefit to us more than outweighs any value of allowing a benefit to MU. That decision has to be made on a team-by-team basis.

Our football team already has a full schedule for next year. Assuming Weis brings us back to respectability quickly, I wouldn’t mind restarting the series but I think the move to Arrowhead was a mistake and it should go back to an on-campus series.

Our basketball team has no reason to play MU. We play our conference mates for the conference title, national powers for national stature, and teams that take a guarantee to come play to maximize revenues. Scheduling MU requires sacrificing one of those things, and I don’t understand how it’s in our interest to do that. When you add the disparity in attendance, it just makes the case stronger.

I hope our non-revenue sports continue to play MU. I agree it will be good for them

by KSinDC on Feb 2, 2012 4:57 PM CST up reply actions  

bball benefit

I’d argue that if the Chiefs/Arrowhead were interested in guaranteeing a large payout for the football game, a sponsor might see the benefit of doing this in basketball as well, (see Bucsh Braggin Rights). I’m not aware of what the return for a game in afh against an opponent taking a guarantee game, but I’d imagine, with the interest shown for the game in the KC area, that the profit would at least be competitive.

by MizzouSteve on Feb 2, 2012 5:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Braggin' Rights works for both teams because neither team would sell out St Louis on its own

KU sells out all of its games, including the annual Sprint Center game, and that game also has a sponsor (this year was M&I Bank). The guarantee in a usual game there amounts to about 20% of the profits. If KU and MU were to split 50-50, the total take from the game would have to be 60% larger just for KU to break even with the game it was dropping. Since ticket sales are already maxed out, it would all have to come from sponsorship dollars (an increase over the existing sponsorship fees). I’m pretty dubious that could be done.

The game would be a huge financial winner for MU, which would get a full arena and a sponsor and national television broadcast, but it’s probably a loss for KU relative to the game it replaces.

by KSinDC on Feb 2, 2012 8:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Yep, obviously a ticket to MU/KU at Sprint would sell easily

for double or triple the price of a KU/Davidson ticket and it would sell out. The guy is free to believe what he wishes to believe though if it helps justify the decision in his own head but it isn’t reality.

by M Krip on Feb 2, 2012 9:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Of course, they'd sell easily

KU-Davidson tickets sell easily. If you’re saying we could charge more for tickets and sell out, you’re right. That’s true of every game on our schedule. We could also sell naming rights to Allen Field House. KU Athletics Department is not revenue maximizing.

But we are not forgoing revenue to benefit Missouri. And I think it should be obvious why KU doesn’t charge our fans more money for tickets so it can defray the loss from changing a scheduled non-conference game to a game against Missouri.

by KSinDC on Feb 2, 2012 9:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Davidson does travel well for a warmup game.

"When among evil companions, try to fit in." - Wild Bill Donovan

Rocky Balboa once told me, "Nothing is real if you don't believe in who you are."

by Kpz1234 on Feb 3, 2012 12:18 AM CST up reply actions  

He asked for an explanation of how KU would not gain from the game and I gave it

I already said above that I’ll miss the rivalry, and that I hope it continues in sports where it benefits both sides.

by KSinDC on Feb 3, 2012 12:58 AM CST up reply actions  

And in the process, undermined your months worth of clamoring

that KU couldn’t possibly continue the rivalry because they’d be giving away revenue.

by Transmogrified Tiger on Feb 3, 2012 1:00 AM CST up reply actions  

KU would be giving away revenue to continue it in basketball

It wouldn’t be giving away revenue to continue it in other sports.

The suggestion that KU could recover the money it would lose in basketball by jacking up ticket prices is transparently dumb. The whole theory here is that the rivalry should continue if it benefits both sides. Saying that KU could mitigate some of the financial harm by alienating its fans just changes the harm that would occur; it doesn’t eliminate it.

If MU really wanted the game to continue and the money wasn’t material, they could play it as a guarantee game for KU. I don’t think that’s fair to ask because that’s not how BCS schools operate with one another, but it’s no different than what MU fans are suggesting KU do to keep the rivalry going — replacing a more lucrative option with a less lucrative rivalry game.

by KSinDC on Feb 3, 2012 1:07 AM CST up reply actions  

Its pretty common to charge more for a bigger game.

I wouldn’t believe that a ticket to Ohio State is the same price as some warm up game for you at AFH against a blah opponent.

So, playing a high profile game like MU/KU over some dink school is really screwing over and alienating your fans?

That’s a strange way of thinking.

by M Krip on Feb 3, 2012 1:41 AM CST up reply actions  

For the most part, KU charges the same price for every game

They do have higher pricing for GA tickets (but not reserved seats) for a few games a year, but those same games tend not to have any GA tickets available, so, in practice, all the games are the same price.

KU football charges more for some games. Maybe MU does too. I think it’s a phenomenon you mainly see for teams that don’t sell out — they do it for games where opposing teams’ fans will be buying a lot of the tickets. Might as well soak them for all you can. But that’s not the case for KU basketball.

Charging KU fans more because KU has to pay MU more to play than it has to pay Davidson doesn’t make sense. To answer your question, we don’t charge more for Ohio State.

by KSinDC on Feb 3, 2012 2:06 AM CST up reply actions  

I understand your point.

I appreciate your discorse here KSinDC, always have, but show me the numbers.

Show me the actual amount of money that KU would lose if they played MU either at AFH, or Mizzou Arena, or the Sprint Center.

Then show me the adjust ticket prices that would have to happen to make up for it.

Or the % MU would have to wave to give back to KU to keep their revenue that they would normally get in a non-con game.

Or present the amount of money the schools would have to get sponsors to donate…..and thus a good list of potential donors willing to give that money.

Before that happens….I’m just not ummm….buying it.

It really is as simple as present the numbers, put together a plan, and then see how each side reacts.

(I really don’t mean you should do this, but the schools should, and if they don’t and this ends without an effort….that’s stupid)

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Feb 3, 2012 9:37 AM CST up reply actions  

I'd be thrilled with that

If MU said they’ll take what Davidson got and KU takes what KU got and they split any amount over that 50:50, I think that would be great.

I’m not holding my breath for that offer to be made (publicly or privately).

by KSinDC on Feb 3, 2012 10:24 AM CST up reply actions  

Perhaps it needs to be a combination

of all three.

Adjust ticket prices (a little), play in the biggest arena (most of the time), MU except less than 50% (because we can’t have Kansas accept less than 60%…or could they?) and get donors on both sides to up the money.

..but yeah. It won’t happen. It’s sad because without the one side, we can’t have the other side. Without THEM, we lose a part of US, in a way.

It’s infuriating because at this point we are just talking about schools, a game kids play, and money. One would think level thinking, and logic would prevail.

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Feb 3, 2012 10:48 AM CST up reply actions  

So

The KU athletic department won’t screw over its fans for a few dollars on a ticket that they want because the KU athletic department isn’t revenue maximizing, but will screw over its fans in not continuing a game everyone wants….for a few dollars?

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Feb 3, 2012 2:34 PM CST up reply actions  

I can't tell if this is farce or just MU-centric thinking

As a fan, I appreciate that KU doesn’t try to wring every last dollar out of me. As a fan, I wish the Border War would continue. But, as a fan, I’m not at all responsible for it ending, and I would not be happy if I have to sacrifice to keep it going.

If the SEC is better and richer for MU, there ought to be a way to make the game happen that doesn’t force KU to take a loss or KU’s fans to pay out more. So far, I’m not hearing many MU fans even acknowledge that reality, much less propose ideas to address it.

You left for more money and now you’re complaining that other schools won’t sacrifice money in order to keep playing you. That looks crazy to everyone outside MU.

by KSinDC on Feb 3, 2012 2:53 PM CST up reply actions  

"As a fan, I appreciate that KU doesn’t try to wring every last dollar out of me."

Lew Perkins on line 1.

"You have to remember, basketball to the University of Miami is like football to the University of Kansas." - Kim English

by Gaknar on Feb 3, 2012 3:41 PM CST up reply actions  

He was a disaster as AD.

I think you’ll find he’s not much missed by the KU fans. Returning to his methods would be a tremendous mistake.

by KSinDC on Feb 3, 2012 4:15 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm just pointing out the hilarious juxtaposition of your contradicting points here

KU won’t jack up the price of tickets to one game (alleviating the money problem) because they are all-caring about the fan experience or something—-KU won’t play MU because of money and that overrides any desire of the fanbase. Do you not see the direct contradiction?

I assume the fans would be more than willing to pay extra for an MU game—-how is it in the best interest of KU to not do something that the fanbase wants?

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Feb 3, 2012 4:39 PM CST up reply actions  

It's like the proverbial blind men describing the elephant.

We care about what’s good for the fans and good for the program. We balance those two interests currently so that we have games that generate significant profit but don’t come anywhere close to charging market-clearing prices. The athletics department gets lots of money, but the fans get greater consumer surplus than they would at the equilibrium price.

I’m saying the program cares about both A) money; and B) its fans, and you’re essentially arguing that it must not care about A because it won’t sacrifice B for A and it must not care about B because it won’t sacrifice A for B. You’re looking at elements in isolation instead of looking at the whole picture.

The program is seeking to advance (at least) two interests. Playing a game that forces them to sacrifice one interest in order to help another isn’t a very compelling proposition.

by KSinDC on Feb 3, 2012 5:10 PM CST up reply actions  

That

Or they could raise ticket prices for one game a year, a strategy that manages to take care of A and B. But we couldn’t do that since everyone is too busy worrying about being petty.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Feb 3, 2012 5:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes, you take care of the fans by charging them more. Brilliant!

If MU wants to take more than Davidson, KU is either going to have to take less or the fans are going to have to pay more. Since KU fills KC arenas and MU doesn’t, it’s clear that the higher prices will be borne primarily by KU fans. Sacrifice A or sacrifice B.

Or get MU to play for Davidson’s take (plus half the additional profits), which, given how poorly MU has drawn at the Sprint Center, would probably be more money for MU anyway.

by KSinDC on Feb 3, 2012 7:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes, because KU fans have equal interest in Davidson and Mizzou

You take care of them by giving them a game they want to see. Would you rather pay for a Davidson game or a Mizzou game? Crazy that you might have to pay more for that! Since we were pulling in the econ, even at a higher price you’re still getting more consumer surplus since it’s a dramatically more valuable game—-at least from my perspective.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Feb 3, 2012 7:20 PM CST up reply actions  

I get to about two games a year

And honestly, I really just care about watching KU. I’d certainly rather watch us play home-and-home against MU than TCU, but I had just as much fun going up to the game at Temple in Philly a couple years ago as I did going to see us play a great Villanova team in Philly eight years ago. The game against Memphis in NYC last year was just as big a draw as the game against Kentucky in NYC this year.

I’d rather play MU than Davidson, but I don’t want to pay extra for the privilege, especially if that extra money isn’t going to help my school but rather is going for a larger payout for the other team.

I’m not saying everybody feels that way, but that’s how I feel.

by KSinDC on Feb 3, 2012 7:36 PM CST up reply actions  

that is a HUGE assumption.

Enormous. Weighty. Gigantic. Hippolike…

"When among evil companions, try to fit in." - Wild Bill Donovan

Rocky Balboa once told me, "Nothing is real if you don't believe in who you are."

by Kpz1234 on Feb 2, 2012 5:30 PM CST up reply actions  

"National powers for national stature"

Come on. You play Pac-10 teams every year. USC?

by MU'97 on Feb 2, 2012 6:04 PM CST up reply actions  

USC looked a lot better when that series was set up

I’d guess that there’s a recruiting element to playing these home-and-home games against Pac-12 teams, but it’s hard to know what you’re going to get from one year to the next. The series against Cal was pretty good, and the games against Arizona the last several years have been excellent.

by KSinDC on Feb 2, 2012 6:13 PM CST up reply actions  

so you are saying playing Mizzou rather than Arizona, Cal, USC, etc.

makes your schedule more prestigious? how does that make any sense?

Rangers | Mizzou | Stars | Steelers | Lakers

by Jason Brynsvold on Feb 3, 2012 3:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Arizona is undoubtedly a superior program to MU. I don't think that can be debated.

As to the other two, I speculated that there must be a recruiting reason (as there was for series with Temple two years ago) to keep playing California teams because otherwise those teams are not at the level that we usually schedule home-and-home series with. Obviously, there’s not recruiting reason to play MU, so that doesn’t apply.

by KSinDC on Feb 3, 2012 4:14 PM CST up reply actions  

If you think Purdue and Iowa are top 10 programs, that's the list for you

I’d rank Michigan State a bit higher in than 8th in the Big Ten, but that’s because I don’t think that ancient history should be weighted equally with recent history.

For what it’s worth, I also wouldn’t put USC on a par with MU like this list does. I like Sagarin, and I don’t mind that KU beats out UNC in this list, but equal weighting every year is stupid.

by KSinDC on Feb 3, 2012 5:15 PM CST up reply actions  

That list is really crazy

#19_Utah
#39_Bradley
#42_Georgetown
#54_UConn

by KSinDC on Feb 3, 2012 5:25 PM CST up reply actions  

I tend to agree that MU will lose some KC media basketball coverage

…just because the KU monster is so big in this town, and MU won’t factor into that equation anymore. But in football? If Mizzou remains a perennial bowl team (which they certainly are at this point), “MU hosts Florida” is a bigger story than “KSU hosts TCU” or “KU loses by 40 to everybody,” and the media is going to go to the big story.

Admittedly, the Weis firing will be a big story—that one might keep Mizzou off a couple November front pages.

by Professor Chaos on Feb 2, 2012 9:03 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Mini karma admission

For the first 18 years of my life I did not hate ku. My parents grew up in Indiana so I didn’t have any proper guidance. When I was little I wanted my dad to buy me a Jacque Vaughn jersey.

My oh my how that changed quickly once I stepped foot on campus. I was beginning the hate in my later years of high school, but we’ll just say I’ve been making up for lost time ever since.

by shaffe on Feb 2, 2012 4:17 PM CST reply actions  

karma admission piggy back +1

I owned (and frequently rewatched) the 1988 championship game with kU beating OU as an adolescent. I did not adopt MU until I was 12-13 and AP came to Mizzou representing Paseo High (my parents alma mater). I won’t admit that I was a fan, but I did keep a Danny Manning PHX Suns card on the front page of my basketball card collection.

by MizzouSteve on Feb 2, 2012 4:56 PM CST up reply actions  

That was a weird time to be a student at Mizzou

I watched that game in my dorm room, and the general feeling (at least among those with whom I was watching) was to grudgingly root for Kansas, because of how much we despised Billy Tubbs. Larry Brown seemed like a cool guy in comparison.

by Michael Atchison on Feb 2, 2012 4:58 PM CST up reply actions  

It's crazy to look at that picture

and see Denmon, English, Moore, & Bowers on the bench in crunch time (humor me on Moore & Bowers; they are/would be major contributors this year), and think how much has changed in three short years.

by The Detroiter on Feb 2, 2012 4:20 PM CST reply actions  

ARE YOU KIDDING ME

Terez Paylor(he of the most pig latiny name I’ve ever heard) on twitter.

Andrew Carter, one of the kids who made the “We are Mizzou” video, just told me they will be performing the song Sat. on college gameday.

by Transmogrified Tiger on Feb 2, 2012 4:40 PM CST reply actions  

Okay.

I know one of the girls in the video. (Friends with her aunt.) She (the dancer) insists that the thing is intended to be a joke. Not sure the joke really works, but at least it isn’t a serious effort.

by IHatedHarpos on Feb 2, 2012 4:56 PM CST up reply actions  

I still say if it was meant to be a joke

it’s worse. There were no jokes. If it was satire, what was the folly they were ridiculing?

Busting Bill C since September 19, 2011 10:19 CST, 8:19 PDT.

by mizzou2396 on Feb 2, 2012 5:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Wait...

Was “Strange Times” not about our move to the SEC?

RockMNation.com (@rockmnation)
Fighting mob mentality since 2007

by RPT on Feb 2, 2012 5:13 PM CST up reply actions  

#HipsterAtchIsHipster

"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010

by ghtd36 on Feb 2, 2012 5:14 PM CST up reply actions  

i'd rather see ol' norm get back out there with some of the current players

and cover the old “cats from old mizzou” vid. now that would be a good time.

Lamentations 3:22-23

by threadkiller on Feb 2, 2012 5:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Embrace it dude. It got us DGB.

"You have to remember, basketball to the University of Miami is like football to the University of Kansas." - Kim English

by Gaknar on Feb 2, 2012 10:02 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

the last two years our home games have been on CBS

last time the border war was televised on ESPN guess who came out on top………………..

Just Sayin

by mizzoufan393 on Feb 2, 2012 5:21 PM CST reply actions  

Hell to pay?

Jesus, they really DIDN’T go to any of their own football games these past couple years…

by CapnCribbs on Feb 2, 2012 9:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Ha I'm surprised I haven't yet.

I can’t believe they really think Weis is gonna magically turn kU into a contender in a year.

by CapnCribbs on Feb 2, 2012 9:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Weis literally took it as a part time job he can quit in five years.

I am sure it will be hard to negatively recruit against that.

by MU'97 on Feb 2, 2012 9:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah

you’d think they would have said “the tournament” instead of “a bowl”, since ku and bowls go together like Chinese food and chocolate pudding

by CBonerfied on Feb 2, 2012 9:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh, you know the NCAA

will be setting up that pairing any chance they get once we’re not in the same conference any more.

by MU'97 on Feb 2, 2012 9:06 PM CST up reply actions  

i love chinaco pudding

I make bad decisions and people think my roller skating is hot.
#CakeForLife

by BillSelfsToupee on Feb 2, 2012 9:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Actually, I bet MU-KU in the tournament happens in the next 5-6 years

As much as the committee says they don’t seed with that in mind, there have been enough times where too-cute matchups happened (remember when we were put into Duke’s bracket when Quin was here?). I just can’t help but suspect that some KU 1 seed vs. MU 5 seed game is gonna happen in 2016 or so.

As far as the RCT comment goes, the bowl tie-ins would have to change, since at present the only SEC vs. Big 12 bowl game is the Cotton, and I believe they always take an SEC West team. Unless we play KU in the Sugar Bowl or something, and I’m not holding my breath on that one.

by Professor Chaos on Feb 2, 2012 9:08 PM CST up reply actions  

On the other hand

There seem to be a tone of SEC-Big Ten tie ins, so we’ll be seeing the Fighting White Levis soon.

by MU'97 on Feb 2, 2012 9:09 PM CST up reply actions  

I am a little bit flattered that they think Mizzou could actually cause instability in the conference by leaving

I definitely wouldn’t give KU that much respect if the tables were turned and it was they who had a chance to go somewhere else and took it.

by M Krip on Feb 2, 2012 9:36 PM CST up reply actions  

There are like three different bad comments I really want to make

but since you said its his daughter and I believe you and I have my own 19 year old daughter at Mizzou, I just can’t do it. I just can’t. Damn

by M Krip on Feb 2, 2012 9:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Um...

"You have to remember, basketball to the University of Miami is like football to the University of Kansas." - Kim English

by Gaknar on Feb 2, 2012 10:04 PM CST up reply actions  

lol
Eric Nold @enold4mizzou
My 4 year old just said "I hate Mizzou fans, I only like @The_Antlers " … Have I failed as a parent?

"You have to remember, basketball to the University of Miami is like football to the University of Kansas." - Kim English

by Gaknar on Feb 2, 2012 10:06 PM CST reply actions  

At the William and Mary game

My family and I walked over to greet the Antlers at halftime, thank them for all they do to support Mizzou and got some pictures taken with them. They were very polite and welcoming. They were great with my 5 year old and she would yell M-I-Z and they would yell back Z-O-U and they held her up for the pictures.

I love that group.

by M Krip on Feb 3, 2012 11:12 AM CST up reply actions  

I have a soft spot for the Antlers as well.

I do think the “cross the line” quite often, but for the most part I enjoy their antics and their passion for the Tigers.

I’m known as a bit of a dreamer!

by MizzouRah04 on Feb 3, 2012 7:29 PM CST up reply actions  

I was a junior at that 87 game

Can still feel the Hearnes rocking when Coward hit that shot. Good times.

Take what I say in a different way and it's easy to see that this is all confusion.

by SiberianKhatru on Feb 3, 2012 8:41 AM CST reply actions  

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