Two K-State Post-Game Thoughts
You can't really sum it up much better than today's study hall, especially since I only got to see the 2nd half. So if you haven't already, head there first and come back. I'll wait... Okay.
1. Mizzou::KSU as Baylor::Mizzou. KSU seems to be kryptonite for our beloved Tigers much the same way we are for Baylor. Our matchup problems against KSU are kinda obvious yet also subtle. KSU obviously has size and length advantages, but we also lack a bona fide quickness advantage at any position (apart from whomever Will Spradling guards). That part is key. It means that in the main we really don't stress their half court defense, getting people out of position to set up good shots. That's what makes Mizzou special in my opinion. Our quickness advantages stress and flex a defense so that we don't just make shots. We get good shots. We don't just beat players--though Dixon is fabulous at that--we beat schemes. That's what makes opposing coaches gush. To the Cats' credit their size/speed ratio and their defensive schemes just don't allow good looks; it's not just against us. Offenses have a tough time beating their scheme or their players.
KSU's issues are usually on the offensive end, just not against us evidently. If you'd told me Monday that we would out-board KSU in expected off. rebounds and out-BCI them I'd have said we win by ten. We lost by ten. They stroked it last night like they do it every night. It's very frustrating. This is how Duke must feel about Florida State. In fact, I kinda hope KSU goes to the tournament and ends up paired against Duke. I have nothing against Duke, I just see the matchup problems as somewhat similar* and I'm curious about what they'd do differently.
* I recognize that Duke has more functional size that Mizzou, but their offense is similarly perimeter oriented.
2. Mizzou still controls its own destiny. Just to leave things on a hopeful note, KSU is a terrible matchup for us and yet the narrative about this loss is very different than what one might expect. Mizzou essentially won many of the "little things/hustle stats" but just couldn't throw it in the ocean. The Tigers had eight steals, 12 offensive boards, and only 10 turnovers. KSU mostly shot themselves to a victory. They didn't out-hustle or out-scheme an entitled team that was looking ahead. Mizzou had the ball with a chance to tie late in the game. KSU hit clutch shots to stymie runs to keep Mizzou at arm's length for most of the night. Some nights you lose and mostly you just tip your cap to your opponent.
Much basketball remains no matter what happens Saturday, and if nothing else these Tigers have demonstrated beyond question that they will make enough plays in every phase to give themselves a shot every single night. As a fan, none of us has the right to ask for (much less expect) anything more.
FanPosts may be posted by any RMN member and may not reflect the views of the management staff of Rock M Nation or SB Nation.
61 comments
|
5 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
That comment is probably the biggest reason why Mizzou struggles against KSU
KSU obviously has size and length advantages, but we also lack a bona fide quickness advantage at any position (apart from whomever Will Spradling guards). That part is key. It means that in the main we really don’t stress their half court defense, getting people out of position to set up good shots. That’s what makes Mizzou special in my opinion. Our quickness advantages stress and flex a defense so that we don’t just make shots. We get good shots. We don’t just beat players—though Dixon is fabulous at that—we beat schemes. That’s what makes opposing coaches gush. To the Cats’ credit their size/speed ratio and their defensive schemes just don’t allow good looks; it’s not just against us.
They have both the size and quickness to defend Mizzou well.
That being said, KSU also shot well above their percentage on the season last night. There’s no way the KSU we saw last night (and in the previous game @KSU) gets swept by Oklahoma.
Someone else made that comparison: KSU bball 2012 is like OU football 2007 – if they played like that every game they’d be nearly undefeated.
Proud Meth Aggie since 2011.
The way I see it
We can over come foul trouble with great shooting, but it the shots aren’t going down, the game comes down to how many fouls the refs are calling. And I hate having to depend on good refs to win a game.
I am a Mizzou fan so if we lose on Saturday, I fully expect us to fall apart completely and make another early exit from the tournament. From my experience, that’s just what we do.
I mean, I'm well versed in Mizzou history and all
but what makes you think that is possible with this team?
by CBonerfied on Feb 22, 2012 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah
I am having a real hard time drawing the line between:
1) Go 11-3 in the league, including a loss at Allen Fieldhouse
and
2) Completely fall apart and make an early exit from a tournament.
When was the last time a Mizzou team this demonstrably good had such a collapse? Northern Iowa? That was 20 years ago. Since then, we have made three runs to the Elite Eight (one with a squad far more underachiving than this one). Last year’s team looked shaky the entire conference season, so their early exit was hardly a stunner. Same with Norm’s last team, playing in an 8-9 game.
I get that we all carry scars, but it’s time to let some of the nervousness go.
by MU'97 on Feb 22, 2012 1:51 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'll let the nervousness go when we finally make a break through.
Every time we’ve got close to greatness we’ve come up short. Until we finally win a conference title, or make the final four, or a even freakin BCS bowl, we will always be the little brother school. The “Awe look at him, he sure gave it his best shot” school.
We’ve made strides of late, but in over 100 years of sports we’ve never been truly great.
I hope that day comes soon, but until that day I will always expect us to get really close, only to blow it in the end.
we've won multiple conference titles in football and basketball
we’ve also won the Sugar and Orange Bowls (although they weren’t labeled BCS at the time).
Busting Bill C since September 19, 2011 10:19 CST, 8:19 PDT.
The Orange Bowl is a perfect example.
Had we beat KU that year we would’ve won the NC. Perfect example of getting to the cusp of greatness and coming up short.
The teams that won Big 8 titles in basketball never made it past the Elite 8, I still call that coming up short of greatness.
I’m “only” 27 so I have no memories of any conference titles. The best memories I have are the 2009 elite 8 run, and that was indeed an over achievment as opposed to a let down, but still not truly a break through year.
I don’t mean to be ultra negative, but when you have a chance to move to the next level, you’ve got to take it. We have that chance still on Saturday and I hope we take it.
But if we lose, it’ll just be another in a long line of stories where we came so close, but just couldn’t take that next step.
we did beat kU that year
I’m not arguing what you personally define as coming up short of greatness, that’s for you to determine with whatever criteria you want to use.
I’m just pointing out to say that we haven’t won a conference title is factually incorrect.
You’re 27 and you really don’t remember 94? I am so old.
Busting Bill C since September 19, 2011 10:19 CST, 8:19 PDT.
Pretty sure he meant the Orange Bowl following the 1960 season.
Unless you were making a subtle statement about the NCAA ruling on the matter.
RockMNation.com (@rockmnation)
Fighting mob mentality since 2007
I didn't think it was subtle
we won the game in 1960. Ask the NCAA.
Busting Bill C since September 19, 2011 10:19 CST, 8:19 PDT.
by mizzou2396 on Feb 22, 2012 2:36 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
What the heck were you all doing?
I’m 27(for a couple more days anyway) and greatly remember a lot about the 93-94 team(then again I was different from most 9-10 year olds). The Polish Rifle’s in and out shot preserving the perfect season…The 4 point loss to Notre Dame, getting hammered by Arkansas(minus Jevon Crudup I believe), beating Michael Finley and Wisconsin, then John Wallace, Lawrence Moten and ’Cuse, before getting plastered by Khalid Reeves and Stoudemire….
Here's the think though...
for all the talk of meritocracy there is almost no social mobility in sports (at the program level). Royalty programs can be down for a bit, but they almost never sink to prolonged “middle class” status. Middle class programs, like Mizzou, can almost never win their way into the upper class. So in all likelihood, you are right. Mizzou won’t win its way into being a truly great program. History makes the case pretty plainly.
But…
You are in the midst of seeing an outsider program make a legitimate run at joining that top group in the two revenue sports. That almost never happens. It is not without precedent. (I’d say Wisconsin started a similar kind of run in the 90s.) It is rare though.
I don’t know you from Adam, and I don’t want to speak out of turn, but it seems like if all you do is wait for the inevitable tumble this will never be anything more than anxiety-producing. Being a fan should be so much more than that.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
by dcrockett17 on Feb 22, 2012 4:14 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
was about to say Virginia Tech was another example of such a run
but noticed you said two-sport. Football, i think they qualify (and perhaps Miami – do they have much history before the 80s? not well versed in east coast athletics), but not for basketball…so yes, outside wisconsin, can’t think of another non-elite school that has started to come (relatively) close to elite-level success in football and mens basketball.
Follow me on twitter.com/SteveCusumano
"THE EYES OF TEXAS ARE UPONNN YOUU... ALLLL THE LIVE LONG DAYYYYYY." - the genius that is @DanBeebe
Miami won 3 in the 80s and 1 in the early 90s
I read somewhere once the last school to win its 1st national championship was Florida in 96. Every other team since then has won it before.
Busting Bill C since September 19, 2011 10:19 CST, 8:19 PDT.
obviously a typo
it made him pee better
by jschooltiger on Feb 22, 2012 1:54 PM CST up reply actions
I didn
I make bad decisions and people think my roller skating is hot.
#CakeForLife
by BillSelfsToupee on Feb 22, 2012 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
next time don't suffer so long
just drop us a line and we’ll mail you a plunger and a bottle of drano.
Well, that's decades of being a Knicks fan
and seeing other teams do it to us…
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
I just can't get over how horrible the ref's were last night
I know that we can’t blame it on the ref’s, we have to perform regardless. But that was the worst officiating I’ve seen all year and it seemed like we got the short end every time. Steve’s foul on the steal beyond the 3 point line was ridiculous. That would have potentially been a big momentum play. On Steve’s last foul, he got shoved under the basket while trying to go from the rebound and then was called for the foul. Flip got shoved to the floor by Rodriguez, no call. Etc…
Ok, I feel better now, I got that off my chest!
I recognize that we have had a few games w/ some bad officiating
where the calls were going our way the most of the game.
But those refs last night…I mean wow…
Totally agree with you.
NO
They were not good. But they were not the reason.
Only Steve Moore can complain.
We aren’t kansas.
Proud Meth Aggie since 2011.
Agreed. I'm not saying that we win if officiating had not been horrendous.
But it was so consistently bad, I think we get to complain.
Games against K-State are always difficult to call
It was even worse when Anderson was here and the entire game was cardiac ball. There were some odd calls, but Mizzou still could have won if they had just made some of those easy shots.
"You have to remember, basketball to the University of Miami is like football to the University of Kansas." - Kim English
What is he saying?
"I always heard there were three kinds of suns in Kansas, sunshine, sunflowers, and sons-of-bitches" -Josey Wales
How the SEC should be embarrassed
KSU will sweep aTm and Mizzou. In foobaw and squeaky bouncy hoops.
Admitted it was trolling after the break. Was funny.
Proud Meth Aggie since 2011.
Heh
I will say I’m not really upset we got swept by them. If the Big Math Equation had broken up during the conference stuff, and the Forgotten 5(4 if we go to the SEC) got left to dry, they would have been the only school besides MU I would have felt bad for
"I always heard there were three kinds of suns in Kansas, sunshine, sunflowers, and sons-of-bitches" -Josey Wales
I don't really have a positive or negative attitude to ISU.
They just exist. I honestly forget they are in the B12 half of the time
"I always heard there were three kinds of suns in Kansas, sunshine, sunflowers, and sons-of-bitches" -Josey Wales
This..
but just couldn’t throw it in the ocean

"I always heard there were three kinds of suns in Kansas, sunshine, sunflowers, and sons-of-bitches" -Josey Wales
by MizzouRugby on Feb 22, 2012 4:12 PM CST reply actions 5 recs
This
This.
Sooooo this.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
Great post
I’m really coming to look forward to these little breakdowns of yours. Always very thoughtful.
tweet from Douggie to Kimmeh
@Englishscope24 I hate that they called the T on U- letter of law vs Spirit of law- changed the game dramatically no?
Gottlieb is . . .
. . . a real piece of work.
57-54-9 . . . get used to it, jaybirds; and let us know when you want us to make it worse. Go Mizzou!
i'm not sure if im the only one
but i felt that we couldnt penetrate the hoop in the first half and when we did we would get swatted………… i felt if we had a few more buckets in the paints in the first half we woulld’ve won
did anyone else see that
or am i just clueless?
by mizzoufan393 on Feb 22, 2012 8:08 PM CST up reply actions
No I thought it too
From what I saw, the first half they went straight at them and KSU held their ground and swatted instead of going for charges.
In the second half, they tried different angles on the hoop to get points. This was especially true for Dixon. If they did that more in the first half, the game might have been different.
But honestly, they just went cold from long range at the absolutely worst time. That hasn’t happened very many times this season. Should be a comfort going forward that it’s not often that the team plays that way.
by mizzousundevil on Feb 23, 2012 3:43 PM CST up reply actions
I think Duke would handle K-State
If they brought their defensive tenacity and as said Duke has functional size as well as number of bodies like K-State does Mason Plumlee pretty much had his way with Jared Sullinger( of course Sullinger had his way on the other end).
I would think that Duke would turn KSU over like no tomorrow
but then, I’d think we’d be doing that too.
And it just hasn’t happened…
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
If Mizzou could keep their cool, I think they could beat K-State
But when even the coach is throwing a tantrum on the sidelines, you know they’re in Mizzou’s heads.
"You have to remember, basketball to the University of Miami is like football to the University of Kansas." - Kim English
Mizzou did...
it just wasn’t enough. It’s not like KSU had a small amount of turnovers.
by mizzousundevil on Feb 23, 2012 3:43 PM CST up reply actions
i hope mizzou puts on a shooting clinic on saturday
it’s hard being a mizzou fan in ny nobody thinks were good even though we are top 10 material.
things you hear in new york
you guys get one or two good wins a year then go back to mediocrity
you guys are only good at softball
DGB made a terrible choice to go to Mizzou
Mizzou should’ve stayed in the big 12
Mizzou will duke it out in the SEC cellar with Vandy
i'm surprised people in new york have even heard of mizzou.
Genesis 1:1
by threadkiller on Feb 23, 2012 4:16 PM CST up reply actions
and this isn't even nyc
this is upstate new york right in the heart of the capital region
there all abouth the yankees mets knicks rangers islanders giants jets i only symapthize with the bills fans because they are the only true new york football team
by mizzoufan393 on Feb 23, 2012 4:37 PM CST up reply actions
ah, i assumed you meant city.
i wore my mizzou gear on a work trip on long island last year, and everyone thought it was michigan. when i told them no, mizzou, they said they’d never heard of mizzou. i said mizzou is the state university in missouri, and they said oh yeah, out there by vegas. SMH.
Genesis 1:1
by threadkiller on Feb 23, 2012 4:52 PM CST up reply actions
yep that sounds about right
thats long island for ya
by mizzoufan393 on Feb 23, 2012 6:56 PM CST up reply actions
Look at this jamoke
This guy is so stupid kansas fans bother me (well those that don’t hate kansas)
http://ncaawiseguy.blogspot.com/
1. yes I did try to promote my blog I need hits even if someone goes on and logs off
2. I am just starting out and in high school so if you want to tell me why my analysis was the worst ever then go right ahead I would appreciate your constructive criticism
3. Everything I said in that post was statistically correct and I will admit I wrote that last paragraph terribly
4. I actually am a Missouri fan

by 

























