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Rock M Roundtable!

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That's right...it's Wednesday once again...as always, feel free to share your own answers in Comments...

1 - First, the old standby: did last weekend's game change your perception of your team?

2 - Texas A&M and Oklahoma State both still have only 1 loss in conference and are therefore tied with OU for #1 in the South.  With OU looking vulnerable on the road (granted, they only have one road game left somehow) and far from bulletproof overall, are we handing them the South too prematurely?  Do ATM (remaining schedule: KU, @OU, @MU, UT) or OSU (UT, KU, @BU, @OU) have a shot?

3 - What will KU's record be when they meet Mizzou on Thanksgiving weekend (their schedule: @ATM, NU, @OSU, ISU)?  For that matter, what will Mizzou's be (their schedule: ISU, @CU, ATM, @KSU)?  Do KSU (BU, @ISU, @NU, MU) or CU (@Tech, MU, @ISU, NU) still have a shot at the North?

4 - Predict this week's games: MU @ ISU, KU @ ATM, NU @ UT, CU @ Tech, BU @ KSU.

5 - If Mizzou were a musician or band, who would they be?  (Sorry...had to bring one out of nowhere...I feel like I've asked all these questions before.)

6 - Any questions or comments for the gallery?

Click 'Full Story' for answers...

Michael Atchison: 1 - I think it solidified the perception that they’re good, and it raised the prospect that they might be very, very good.  It also reaffirmed that the recent efforts by the defense were no fluke.  That unit has gotten better, fast.

2 - Sure A&M and OSU have a shot if either of them can pull the upset at Norman.  Do you really expect that to happen?  Me, either.

3 - I’ll put Mizzou and Kansas both at 11-1, setting up the biggest meeting between the teams since 1960.  As for KSU and CU, they’re done.  Four games left, behind by two, and each loses a tiebreaker to Kansas.  But either of them could bolster their bowl credentials and be a big-time spoiler by beating Mizzou at home.

4 - MU 51  ISU 13

A&M  21  Kansas 20 (if KU wins this, I’ll stop picking against them on the road; they will have earned it)

Texas 38  Nebraska 10

Texas Tech 41  CU 14

KSU 35  Baylor 10

5 - I’m tempted to say that the Tigers are the great Austin, TX band Spoon, which wandered aimlessly for a few years before hitting its stride and reeling off four straight terrific records:  Girls Can Tell, Kill the Moonlight, Gimme Fiction and Ga Ga Ga Ga Ga.  That’s the Tigers: They run off a string of decent but not great seasons, and then finally seem to break through.

But with what’s simultaneously happening in Lincoln and Columbia, and with some of the Huskers’ top recruits batting their eyes at Gary Pinkel, Mizzou may be Bob Dylan, for the times, they are a-changin’.

6 - When is the last time you saw two Heisman candidacies end on the same field on the same day?  Harrell and Crabtree had some buzz coming into Faurot Field, but absolutely none going out.

The Beef: 1 - I don’t think the game changed my perception TOO much...only because I went into the game with two thoughts:

a) – Ttech and specifically their QB is never as good as people think.  Each year, they either bring in a better QB or the QB from the previous year is back and a year better...and each year, they get exposed by the end of it as a true system QB.  Otherwise, TTech would have won more than they have over the past few years.

b) – Matt Eberflus always comes up with something really good for TTech, so I believed that was going to be the case again.

Now...I did not believe both would converge like they did...but I feel good about our ability to run, our ability to make some more adjustments and that our defense now believes they are strong, which is important.

2 - No...I really do not think so, but if there was a team I had to pick out of it, I would pick OSU I guess.  UT at home should be a good one, but I like them in the middle two and you never know in that rivalry game against OU.  As for aTm, I do like them over kU, but not as much in the other three.

3 - I think kU loses two games in there, likely on the road (though for some reason, I cannot rule out NU beating them for some VERY odd reason).  kSU has a nice chance to run the table until they play us...so I guess they end up with three losses.  CU...I think they peaked and are on their way down...hopefully will be softened up by an angry Tech team this coming weekend.

4 - MU 45 ISU 13....you know what...I have been picking against kU of late...let’s turn the karma around....so here goes...kU 31 aTm 21, UT 41 NU 17, TTech 48 CU 24, kSU 34 Baylor 17

5 - I...um...I have absolutely no idea whatsoever.

6 - Hmmm...stumped again...yeah...since Mizzou never has people being discussed, or used to put up a fight against a team that DID have two...I would not know.

rptgwb: 1 - Expectations haven't changed, but I learned small things about this team last Saturday. First of all, the Missouri defense that we've seen in conference play is for real. I was the first to jump on the arm tackling, slow pursuing, porous run defense in non-conference play (Geno Blow???), but this unit has been nothing short of outstanding in Big 12 play. I can't ever recall seeing a more physical secondary, which is amazing given Missouri is only a year removed from David Overstreet. Additionally, we learned what we expected - that Jimmy Jackson will hit any hole the offensive line gives him rather than dancing around it like a lot of other Missouri backs do. And watching Pinkel take what Tech gave him on the ground rather than "trying to establish the pass" was impressive to me, if only for the fact it proves Pinkel is not as stubborn as he used to be.

2 - I still like Oklahoma in the South. The Aggies have a punishing rushing attack, but between Stephen McGee's erratic passing and the brutal schedule, I can't see A&M escaping unscathed. OSU is a different story. The Cowboys, if they're on their game, can easily take Texas and Kansas at home. If they take care of business (which is NOT a guarantee with this team), the OU-OSU matchup in Norman could determine the South. Regardless, I still like the Sooners to take the division.

3 - Kansas will have one loss on their schedule entering Arrowhead. I think the Jayhawks drop one of their South roadgames in either College Station or Stillwater. Earlier in the season, I expected Missouri to have two losses entering the KU game, dropping either CU or KSU on the road. Although these games will be extremely tough, I honestly believe this Missouri team is good enough to avoid the road upset. Both teams enter 10-1 (6-1) and the winner punches a ticket to San Antonio.

4 -
MU 41, ISU 10
ATM 21, KU 20
UT 38, NU 17
TT 38, CU 28
KSU 27, BU 13

5 - How about a little Stevie Ray Vaughan? This Missouri team seems to be all about speed, something Stevie Ray and his Stratocaster know a little about. But we learned last week that the Tigers still have the capacity to slow things down and hit you with another dimension. Luckily, they avoided the "Texas Flood" last week and have thus far avoided getting "stranded, caught in a crossfire." And, hell, even the 'Zou this year has been impressive. When the house is a rockin', don't bother knockin', when the house is a rockin', don't bother, come on in.

6 - Cliche question time! Does Missouri have enough defense? Can Pinkel and Co. avoid a meltdown? Can Missouri run the ball late in games? Should the Tigers wear gold pants?

Please don't answer any of those.

Michael Atchison: I think I said that both Kansas and Mizzou will be 11-1 when they meet.

Obviously, that can't happen.  Make it 10-1 for each.

Zou Dave: 1 - I'll give my old stanbdy answer:  That's what I expected our team to do (it was actually better than expected, but I still expected us to win that game by multiple scores).  Missouri is still going to end up Big XII North Champion.  This just reaffirmed it for me.

2 - Both of those teams have a shot, but unfortunately for A&M they have to come to Mizzou and we're not going to lose a home game this year.  That means for A&M to win the South, they will have to beat OU in Oklahoma to do it.  If A&M beats OU, they've already beaten OSU, so they could afford the loss to us and still beat ku and UT to get it done.  OU would have 2 losses (Colorado and A&M), OSU would have 2 losses (A&M and OU) and A&M would have 2 losses (Tech and Mizzou).  So A&M would have to beat OU in Norman for this to be possible.  Since I don't believe that's going to happen, and I think OU will beat Tech even though it's a road game, I still think OU comes out of the South as the Division Champ.  OSU will have an opportunity to take it on the last day of the regular season, but it's at Oklahoma and OU will be playing not only for a right to go to the Big XII Championship Game but also will still be in the hunt for the National Title.  If they don't slip up before then, they're NOT going to slip up in that one.

3 - I have been hoping ku would lose the last 2 times they went on the road, but haven't really outright expected it.  I'm not 100% sure I expect it against A&M, but I think A&M is a really tough team at home and I think the Aggies will basically play ku the way they played us last year which is to keep it on the ground, grind out yards, take care of the ball and let that home crowd get them a win.  I definitely don't think ku gets out of Stillwater with a win.  So, being the ku hater that I am, I think ku goes into KC 9-2 and Mizzou will be 10-1, maybe at worst 9-2 if we slip up once on the road either against KSU or CU (though right now I think we take both).  Basically, that means that game will be for the North.  Unless ku goes undefeated AND Mizzou loses another game, or ku loses 1 and Mizzou loses 2 more, or ku loses 3 while Mizzou runs the table, this is the game that will decide it.  KSU is going to beat Baylor and Iowa State for sure, but I still think Nebraska is eventually going to win another home game and it might be against KSU so it comes down to whether KSU can beat Mizzou or not and I don't think they will so KSU is probably out.  CU may very well lose @Tech this week because you know Tech is going to be out for blood, they will definitely beat Iowa State and Nebraska so again it comes down to the Mizzou game.  If Colorado does beat Mizzou, then yes they have a shot because they'd still be on 2 losses.  I had been saying that I think 7-1 is the record that takes the North, and that's still likely because I think Mizzou will go 7-1.  But it's entirely possible the winner of the North is 6-2, but no worse than that.

4 - Well, MU isn't at ISU, but I'll predict it anyway

Mizzou - 45
Iowa State - 7

kansas - 17
Texas A&M - 21

Nebraska - 10
Texas - 41

Colorado - 24
Texas Tech - 56

Baylor - 13
Kansas State - 28

5 - I don't think I'm qualified to answer this question.  I don't know music nearly as well as the rest of you.  I'll say we're the Blue Man Group.  We wear one color, we're immensely entertaining, and nobody expects the show to be as good as it is and then after it's over you have a hard time explaining to people why it's so awesome, but it is.

6 - In person?  Or ever?  Either way, probably never.  Other than maybe Michigan in the opener this year when Hart and their QB (name escaping me right now) lost all hope while losing to Appalachian State (who is HOT! HOT! HOT!).

A question for the group - Does anyone else have a bump on their chin from their jaw hitting the ground after you found out about Dalton?  That made my night.  Hope he stays 100% committed for another 18 months or whatever it is.  And do any of you believe the Gabbert hype this time?  Or is this another setup for heartbreak?

The Beef: I will answer Dave’s question as best I can without potentially angering other Mizzou...um...people out in the internets.

For so many weeks and months we had it pounded into our head that...while it was not official...he was coming to Mizzou...no question.  Then he didn’t...Now...well...we are pretty much back to it.  He is evidently not looking anywhere else...just here.  Not only that...depending on which report you read, he is bringing anywhere between 1 and 3 other people with him.  I believe SOMEONE from NU will end up a MU once all their implosion is said and done, but I could not tell you who it would be, and I do NOT want to be around if Gabbert decides to stay at NU or head somewhere else at the 11th hour.

Doug: 1 - Besides the high blood pressure?  It was really another notch in the belt for toughness.  KU managed to do something in Boulder Oklahoma could not do this year.  Plus, it seems like Colorado has the biggest home field advantage in the Big 12.  Not from the crowd aspect, mind you, but just the overall difficulty of playing there always seems to get to teams, especially late in the game.

2 - Between aTm and OSU, I think it comes down to who beats Oklahoma, a road game for both.  Frankly, I can see both losing out to KU and MU, but if one manages to pull the upset against the Sooners, I think that wrests the South away from Oklahoma.  I think both teams have a decent shot against Texas, especially at home, and Baylor's not going to surprise anyone after the Texas game last Saturday.

3 - I'm not picking against Kansas, so I say KU is a perfect 11 and 0 going into Arrowhead, and I'll go ahead and say MU is 10 and 1 the Saturday after Thanksgiving.  Also, given the discussions on the TB Football Board, I will say I'm happy I don't have tickets to the game, especially upper-bowl tickets.  Colorado is done at this point, K-State however, should reel off three wins in a row going into the Missouri game.  That's the trip up game for the Tigers.  If the Wildcats are rolling, and MU is already looking forward to Kansas City, and possibly San Antonio, KSU could pull the shocker in Manhattan.

4 - MU 49  ISU 7
   KU 24  aTm 10
   NU Bill Callahan's head on a plate  UT 42
   CU 28  TT 31
   BU 13  KSU 35

5 - Kansas





(What?)

6 - I have question.  I've been trolling Tigerboard recently (yeah, I know, fell off the wagon) and it seems bizarre to me that some MU fans are focusing more on trying to degrade the season Kansas is having as opposed to enjoying the season the Tigers are having.  Any ideas why?  I completely get that four wins of the KU schedule are from a cupcake of a non-con line-up.  However, they are wins.  For the most part, I don't see a lot of Kansas fans crowing about the success in overly vocal terms, like K-State fans did throughout much of the 90's.  As a KU fan, I'm just thrilled to see this kind of success week in and week out, and frankly, I'm a little nervous about when it could end.  Now, if a KU fan is acting like a clown, I've got no problem with knocking them down a couple of pegs, but I'm surprised MU fans aren't enjoying their run more than trying to put a black mark on KU's.  So, I guess my question is... what up wit dat?

The Beef: Because Mizzou fans cannot EVER be happy with anything in total...EVER...so you see us having to be mean somewhere if we cannot be mean to ourselves, which we typically do better than anyone.  Trust me...it will turn this week after we only have 55K at this game...and could be even worse when the same thing happens in a couple of weeks as we win our 9th game of the season against aTm, but on a day when it will certainly be colder and the opening of DEER SEASON...yeah...it will happen again unfortunately.  In the end, we will turn on ourselves again...especially if kU does trip at some point soon.  Short answer long...it is because we don’t know how to enjoy our own success, so somehow we have to go over the top poking holes in an undefeated team, no matter how they got there.

ZouDave: Couldn't have said it better, Seth.  Well, I probably could have, but I'm not going to try ;-)  Mizzou fans as a whole are neurotic and we MUST be offensive to someone.  ku is our normal and easy target.

There have been quite a few ku jerks on Tigerboard over the past 5 weeks, but most of the bad posts get removed and the user gets suspended because we just simply don't want to put up with it.  We have almost all of the opposing schools on a shorter leash than we ever have.  That was mainly a decision by me and a couple of the other mods, but Nick has not in any way discouraged the behavior.

So to see the really bad ku fans, you have to look quickly because the posts are gone before they get too many responses.

Michael Atchison: I suspect that the Gabbert speculation is real this time.  I think the people disseminating the info actually know more than they’re letting on, and they’re letting it out in code.

As for Doug’s question, I don’t know.  The internet is chock-full o’ crazy people.

Doug: Sure, that makes sense.  I've also noticed it a little bit on talk radio here in KC, where the battle lines are well and firmly established.  For my part, I've not problem with Missouri winning, so long as they don't win at Arrowhead.

Oh, and another question... did you guys know they're actually going to be playing basketball soon?  I had no idea.

ZouDave: basket...ball?  Is that new?  Sounds made up.

The Boy: Wow...this sucker went fast.  My turn.

1 - Actually, the dominance of Tech bumped my perceptions up a couple notches (which made me, as a neurotic Mizzou fan, get that much more paranoid).  I figured Mizzou would score in the high-30s/low-40s.  That wasn't surprising.  And I expected Mizzou to play super-physical against Tech's WR's.  Two things surprised me: a) How well the physical play worked.  I mean...one trip over the middle, and each Tech WR developed alligator arms.  A lot of Tech's dropped passes were due simply to not extending enough for the ball.  And nobody was more responsible for this than Pig Brown.  Somebody (Gabe, I think) suggested that if Mizzou wins out, Pig could be Big 12 Defensive Player of the Year, and at this point, with the difference he's made this season, there might be a case for that. b) How well the D-line played.  They were such a concern at the beginning of the season, but the entire line--Tommy Chavis and Charles Gaines in particular--have raised their level of play considerably, and it's making a HUGE difference.  Even with OU's 41 points, Big 12 opponents are averaging only 19 PPG against Mizzou, and that's after playing two of the best offenses in the conference.  Continue playing like this for the next two weeks, and neither ISU nor CU should score over 14.

2 - Texas A&M = no.  Power to them for keeping it together despite the Franchione situation and the fact that their WR's are mediocre at best.  However...their four remaining games are against arguably the four best teams in the conference (OU, MU, KU, UT), with road games against #1 and #2.  Considering they'd have to win at least three (and maybe four) of those...yeah, ain't happening.  OSU, however, could sneak up on OU in a big way if they maintain their home-field advantage.  They too have to host #3 and #4 in the conference (KU, UT), but they have enough offensive explosiveness--now that Dantrell Savage is rolling--that they could win both of those.  Split those and win in Waco, and they're sitting at 5-2 when they roll into Norman.  Need I remind people that an OSU team much worse than this one upset OU in Norman and wrecked both their national title and Big 12 title hopes?

That said, they won't win.  But they could have a shot...and nobody would even notice until halftime of the OU game.

3 - KU's disciplined and tough, but they're not great in the speed category.  Neither NU nor ISU will be able to make them pay for their lack of speed, and I think both will get smoked in Lawrence.  ATM isn't particularly fast either, and I really could see KU jumping up and biting the Aggies in College Station.  OSU, however, has the offensive firepower to beat KU, and I think they will.  Which, I guess, would make KU 10-1 when they show up at Arrowhead.

Meanwhile, as a paranoid MU fan, I like that a 10-1 KU record would mean Mizzou is allowed a loss at Boulder or Manhattan.  However, if they want to make sure KSU doesn't stick around, that loss should preferrably come in Boulder.  I don't think that's going to happen, however.  CU won a couple games with smoke and mirrors, and I think they're d-u-n.

If KSU beats MU, an interesting scenario could play out.  The Fighting Ron Prince's have winnable road games in Ames and Lincoln (I do not necessarily believe that NU will have any fight left by then) and could conceivably win out.  So a KSU win over MU and an MU win over KU could leave a 3-way tie at 6-2 (and 1-1 against each other).  The North records would all be 4-1.  Next tiebreaker?

4 - Predict this week's games:

MU 44, ISU 10
KU 24, ATM 16
UT 34, NU 7
Tech 37, CU 13
KSU 28, BU 3

5 - If Mizzou were a musician or band, who would they be?  (Sorry...had to bring one out of nowhere...I feel like I've asked all these questions before.)

6 - No, but I'll try to answer everybody else's:

Atch: Technically, Daniel is still on the Heisman fringe (though he obviously needs to pick up the pace), so that makes THREE Heisman candidates.  It was definitely impressive watching Mizzou manhandle that level of talent

Ross: Does Missouri have enough defense? Yes!  Can Pinkel and Co. avoid a meltdown? Possibly!  Can Missouri run the ball late in games?  Maybe!  Should the Tigers wear gold pants?  No!

Dave: The Dalton thing staggered me pretty good too.  I knew he was thinking about committing, but with all the attention coming from other major schools, I figured he'd still let it play out a while.  And while I do think Gabbert is seriously considering us, every time I read "Folks, I think he's going to be a Tiger," I become less confident.  Let's just let this play out.  It can't be a bad thing that he's trying to get other NU commits to visit Columbia too, though this does raise a question: Mizzou fans were SOOOOOOOOO pissed at Blaine for committing to NU and trying to get Andrew Jones to come with him.  How hard is it to look the other way now that he might be doing the exact same thing for Mizzou?

Doug: Mizzou fans--ESPECIALLY Tigerboarders--go with what they know.  KU = suck.  Doesn't matter if it would actually benefit Mizzou if both teams were 10-1 going into the Arrowhead finale...KU = suck.

And even though I think Mizzou will be really fun to watch again this year, I've never been less interested in basketball season.

The Boy: And since I accidentally skipped #5...

I say Mizzou = The Who from the mid-70s.  They're way better than you want to think they are, but you're always at least slightly paranoid that an alcohol fueled burnout (i.e. laying an egg on the road) could ruin the show, or that a shard of busted guitar could take out Pete Townsend's eye ( i.e. the Sports God could smite Mizzou with an injury to Chase Daniel).

Michael Atchison: Holy strained analogies, Batman!

The Boy: Damn Straight!

And for the record...the tiebreaker process is as follows:

If two teams are tied, the winner of the game between the two tied teams shall be the representative
If three or more teams are tied, steps 1 through 7 will be followed until a determination is made. If only two teams remain tied after any step, the winner of the game between the two tied teams shall be the representative.

  • The records of the three teams will be compared against each other
  • The records of the three teams will be compared within their division
  • The records of the three teams will be compared against the next highest placed teams in their division in order of finish (4, 5 and 6)
  • The records of the three teams will be compared against all common conference opponents;
  • The highest ranked team in the fi rst Bowl Championship Series Poll following the completion of Big 12 regular season conference play shall be the representative
  • The team with the best overall winning percentage [excluding exempted games] shall be the representative
  • The representative will be chosen by draw.

Tiebreaker #3: All three beat CU, NU, and ISU in my scenario.
Tiebreaker #4: No common South opponents.
Tiebreaker #5: ???  Probably Mizzou, but I'm not totally sure.
Tiebreaker #6: If somehow they're all tied in the BCS, this tiebreaker would knock out KSU...leaving MU & KU, meaning MU wins.

Doug: Hold on, so if it gets to tie-breaker number six, then it's overall winning percentage from the entire season, right?

Well, that would still leave KU and MU tied, with with the same overall record, and wouldn't KU's win against SE Louisiana still factor into the overall percentage?  Meaning still a tie, and we go to draw, right?

The Boy: We'd have the same win %, but once KSU is knocked out, it goes back to head-to-head matchups...meaning Mizzou wins.  Eat THAT!

(I never really thought I'd see the day in which Mizzou and KU fans were talking about tiebreakers for winning the North...in football.)

ZouDave: So basically, it comes down to who wins the matchup at Arrowhead...it just takes longer to get there in this scenario.

The Boy: Unless KSU makes a big leap in the BCS, yes.

ZouDave: and they won't really have an opportunity to do that, since Mizzou is the best game remaining on their schedule.  And even if we win every game between now and then we won't be that high in the BCS that a win over us would mean a huge difference.

The Beef: Well...Prince is scary smart...it could happen.

Michael Atchison: So, what you’re saying that it’s very unlikely that we’ll have a three-way tie that makes it to the fifth tiebreaker?

The Boy: Anything less than 5 tiebreakers = no drama.

rptgwb: Couple of things to address:

I have to ask, if Mizzou is The Who, is the success of the 2007 season an "eminence front?"

As for "potential" Heisman candidates on the field, how about 2009-ish Jeremy Maclin. Didn't the SI article mention him as a future candidate?

I'm amazed Gabbert is even considering Mizzou and/or recruiting for Mizzou, especially after the sh*tstorm he took from fans after he committed to Nebraska.

And I've noticed that same sentiment among Tigerboarders. Whatever TBers have is never good enough - it seems like there's always an attack on somebody. If it's not Nebraska, it's Kansas. If it's not either school, then they just start attacking each other.

Here's a one-step tiebreak for the North: Win out. That's exciting enough for me.

The Boy: See, Atch?  Some people complain of strained analogies, others just create new jokes out of strained analogies!  Well played, rpt.

ZouDave: Is this a trap question so you can start a fight about something, Atch?  I think I'll ask Admiral Ackbar...

The Admiral has spoken.  I'm not answering your question!

Michael Atchison: I was at the homecoming parade on Saturday, and a group of adults was marching in strangely elaborate Star Wars costumes.  If I could have left my kids, I would have gone up and knocked on Darth Vader’s helmet to see how you were doing.

The Beef: And the Roundtable has taken that turn we all fear it would every week...straight to geek.

The Boy: And it wasn't my fault!  Woohoo!

ZouDave: You're just pissed because you immediately got it and laughed.

My main hobby is editing videos, its not news that I'm a geek.

The Boy: Any final digs at Dave before I hit 'Publish'?

The Beef: Dave’s ugly and his videos stink!!

ZouDave: They do not stink!!!

The Beef: Well the music does at least (just so we can incorporate another area where Mizzou fans bitched for no reason).

The Boy: He should use only Who songs from here on out.

rptgwb: By the way, Eminence Front makes for one of the coolest intro songs of all time.

Case in point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPYe_saFSFk

As a Dallas native, I going to ask that we refrain from talking about the outcome of the series depicted in the video.

ZouDave: So with this gabbert situation, are you saying you won't be fooled again?

The Boy: Oy.

Alright, your turn, random Internet lurkers...have at it...