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Rock M Roundtable!

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I'm going to resist bringing up the hatchet job in the Post-Dispatch today...or at least try my best.

1 - So who did a better job of proving "This isn't the normal ___ team" this weekend...KU (by scoring more points against NU on Saturday than they did in two separate decades) or MU (by bouncing back from an awful first quarter to absolutely obliterate a decent CU team on the road)?

2 - Who wins the Buyout Race?  Is it Franchione, who's buyout rumors are a Monday tradition at this point?  Callahan, whose team just gave up 76 points to KU and who famously slammed the new AD a while back?  Or will Guy Morriss jump in and steal their thunder?  And if Morriss wins the competition...will anybody even notice?

3 - How omniscient was Mike Alden when he agreed to make this MU-KU road game the one played in Arrowhead?  I mean, it's the first time Mizzou and KU are in the Top 10 at the same time ever, and we just happen to not have to go to Lawrence, where we almost always play like complete and total crap?  Can you imagine a luckier scheduling turn of events (other than KU not having to play UT or OU this year, of course)?

4 - Is it just my imagination, or is OSU trying as hard as they can to directly replicate Mizzou's 2004 season?  Get embarassed by Troy on ESPN early in the season, then blow a series of big (and then bigger) leads in conference play...granted, they'll likely beat Baylor and still qualify for a bowl (something Mizzou was unable to do in 2004), but...I guess my real question is, how much will the 'Pokes have left in the tank for KU this weekend?  Should we expect another "OSU jumps out to a big lead, then loses it in the 4th quarter" game, or will KU embarass them, a la KU-MU 2004?

5 - As always, make your picks:  ATM @ MU, KU @ OSU, Tech @ UT, KSU @ NU, CU @ ISU, BU @ OU.

Okay, I can't help it.  Bonus question: should we remove the Post-Dispatch from our 'Mizzou Links' section after today's Joe Strauss column?  :-)

The Beef: 1 – I think we did to be honest.  I think the CU team has not quit, and NU (obviously) has on defense.  Credit to kU for getting it done (though I still have an issue with your starting RB scoring the 10th TD in the game, even if you were "only" up by 30 at the time), but I don’t believe NU provides a fair comparison at this point given how their season went into the crapper.  EVERY single Mizzou fan had the same feeling when Chase threw that INT about, "Oh lord, here we go again", but we overcame that in a HUGE way.  However, the kU stat is still pretty damn funny.

2 – I think actually Morriss gets it because his season ends first.  Callahan will end Friday after Thanksgiving to CU, and aTm’s likely does not end until late Dec.  I could see aTm leaving him there until the very end, and I think Callahan is out before the calendar turns to Dec, but I think Morriss beats them both out the door.  And no...not a soul will notice.

3 – Asking me to give credit to Mike Alden right now in light of my recent ranting is probably not the best idea.  It was lucky...that’s all I will say.

4 – I think kU embarrasses them actually, and I would not have said that to you before last weekend.  But given how kU played, and how OSU finished their game, I don’t believe OSU has the mental makeup to deal with that sort of adversity.  However, their coach is 40 and a man, so you never know what he may be able to fire them up with this week, but I think the collision course is still set, and I think Gundy will get one more year next year to really step it up.

5 – MU 48 aTm 10, kU 52 OSU 28 (and it wont be that close), UT 41 TTech 28, KSU 45 NU 24, ISU 28 CU 27 (probably not, but I do think ISU is playing much better obviously), OU 1004 BU -2.

Bonus - Nope...any further embarrassment to the P-D that can be brought because of it, I am for it.

Doug: 1) I think both teams just added another note to their resumes this season, but I would give the slightest of edges to KU.  I think there is something to be said for rolling 76 points on any team.  I don't care about the notion of Nebraska "quiting" on the season.  Players have enough self-respect to not want that kind of beating to occur, and they couldn't stop KU, regardless of who the coaching staff is.

2 - Without a doubt it'll be Callahan, only because he won't quit.  Franchione may have the decency to "step-down" with an under-the-table briefcase full of money.  Callahan is going to drag this thing out and demand that he have a check in hand for the remaining amount of his contract before he leaves Lincoln.  And, isn't Morriss in the last year of his contract, anyway?  I knew people were talking about him having to work a miracle to get an extension, but I wasn't sure if he had another year to go or not.

3 - I think I'll stick with pure luck.  Nobody, from either school, could have predicted this kind of season from both teams. I will say, it is a good thing for MU since KU has been averaging close to 50 a game at home.  Maybe Arrowhead the Tigers can hope for something closer to 40.

4 - I really have nothing to say about the KU-OSU game right now.  It's making me nervous just thinking about it.  (Is this what having an undefeated football team is like every year?)

5 - ATM 10  MU 42 , KU 49  OSU 14 , Tech ??  UT ?? (can anyone else figure out these two teams, cause I sure as hell can't) , KSU 21  NU 20 , CU 28  ISU 24 , BU 3  OU 52

6 - "Joe Strauss covers Cardinals baseball for the Post-Dispatch. In the offseason (sic), he occasionally writes commentary on a variety of sports topics."  Apparently not very often... or very well.  My God, I thought there were some crotchety sportswriters out there, but this guy is just pissed off at the world.  By the way, who is he quoting in the eighth paragraph?  I love it when writers just make up quotes to suit their overall purpose.  And, is it really necessary to haul out the old deer hunting season excuse?

The Boy: 1 - MU beat CU by 30 more points than KU beat them.  KU only beat NU by 2 more.  MU was more impressive.  :-)  Honestly, though...KU's offense looked better Saturday than I'd seen it at any other time (though I'd only seen the ATM and CU games).  It was a very impressive performance, though a) Todd Reesing and Brandon McAnderson simply should not have been on the field once KU passed 60, and b) I could have scored on a couple of McAnderson's runs...he basically walked in untouched half the time due to the fact that KU's blocking was fantastic and NU had completely and totally quit mentally.  You can have self-respect and try your damnedest to avoid quitting, but sometimes it's just going to happen.  It happened on Saturday.

2 - I do think it will be Morriss.  Their season will end next weekend, and they will quietly decide not to extend his contract.  Between Franchione and Callahan, though, I'm just not totally sure.  If ATM finishes 6-6, I'm not sure they'll actually accept a bid to the Fort Worth Bowl or whatever at this point.  And if they do, I'm pretty sure Franny will be long gone.  I think it will be a horserace to who can get their Monday-post-Thanksgiving presser scheduled the fastest.

3 - Obviously luck, but I do think I would trade that luck for a bad home schedule next year.  I've witnessed too many debacles in Lawrence.  We win in Arrowhead in two weeks, and all is forgiven for next year's non-conf schedule.  (All is NOT forgiven for the BCS title game ticket situation, however...I'm with Beef on that one.)

4 - Honestly, OSU's explosive enough on offense that I do think they'll come out firing on Saturday.  The only problem is, they seem to run out of ammunition halfway through the 3rd...and they might run out sooner after last week's flameout.  I do kind of hope the 'Pokes pull it out simply because I don't want to have to worry at all about the game in Manhattan next week, but I probably see something like 41-28 KU.

5 - Well, 41-28 KU for starters.  Or maybe 34-31.  Not sure.  Eh, 41-28.  Others: 35-14 Mizzou.  31-26 Texas.  34-24 KSU.  23-21 ISU.  35-9 OU (unlike Ron Prince, Stoops will call off the dogs early...no point in piling on poor Baylor at this point).

Bonus - Seriously, what other Top 10 team has to deal with this crap from their state's largest newspaper?  Unfortunately, though, you have to quantify where this compares with previous P-D slams/issues.  If a 4 is the typical Miklasz/Gordo rambling, a 7 is a Vahe Gregorian expose, and a 10 is that horrid Aaron O'Neal 'cartoon' with the drawn-up football play and the arrows to the ambulance (I will NEVER forgive them for that...in fact, I'm not sure why I'm not still boycotting them for that), I'd say this is a solid 8.5.

Michael Atchison - 1 - That’s like asking "who was cooler? Miles Davis or Thelonious Monk?"  We’re approaching a limit here.  If forced to pick, I suppose I’d say Missouri because (1) I’m a homer; (2) it was on the road; and (3) they dominated on both sides of the ball.  The whole Kansas-Nebraska game was surreal, though.  It was like watching something other than Division One football.  I was shocked both that Kansas scored eleven touchdowns, and that they gave up 37 points to that Nebraska team.

2 - Who’s Guy Morriss?

3 - "Fortuitous" doesn’t begin to describe it.  This will be better than a bowl game, because instead of having pockets of opposing fans mixed in with locals and sponsors, the opposing fans will make up the entire crowd.  I can’t remember a game anywhere quite like it.  It could be a neutral-field match-up between two top five BCS schools on the last weekend of the season.  Anyone have a precedent?

4 - I don’t expect OSU to give up, I don’t expect them to get embarrassed, and I don’t expect them to win.  Kansas has made me a believer, but they haven’t made me believe that they’ll go on the road and blow out a quality opponent.  They’ve left Lawrence three times, and they’ve won by six, five and eight points, respectively.

5 - MU 38  A&M 14
KU  24  OSU 19
UT  44  TT  38
KSU  33  NU 16
CU  17  ISU 13
OU  Infinity plus six  BU 1

Bonus - Suffice it to say, that was one strange point of view.

ZouDave: 1 - This is a great question.  I'm going to say Mizzou simply because in my mind kansas had already proven that this year.  I think their wins on the road against KSU, CU and aTm did more to prove this isn't the same ol' kansas team than a 37-point victory over Nebraska at home.  Mizzou had to prove we didn't have a November swoon in front of us by going into a place that Oklahoma lost in and kansas barely got by in.  It was an absolute bloodletting.  kansas' victory over Nebraska gets major style points, because putting 76 on any Div 1 team is impressive and it's even more impressive when it's a conference foe and it's even MORE impressive when it's the defending division champs...but everyone knows Nebraska quit their season somewhere in the 2nd half against Mizzou.  And Nebraska did still score 39.  I'm not at all trying to take anything away from ku's win, but I am saying I think Mizzou did more to prove we're not the same ol' Mizzou this weekend.  November 24th is going to be unreal.

2 - Nobody will notice if it's Morriss.  A Baylor coach getting beaten like a drum?  Never saw that coming.  I think Franchione wins the Buyout race, and I also think Texas A&M gets a better hire to replace him.  They're not in as bad a place as Nebraska is.

3 - A luckier schedule would have been this plus us having to play Iowa State on the road and Oklahoma at home this year.  That's about the only thing that could have made this better.  In truth, nobody saw this coming from kansas (even their most ardent supporters were saying 9-3 was their high expectation) but us not having to go to lawrence may very well be the final piece of the puzzle that gets us to San Antonio this year.  I wonder if the ku fans will ever forgive Perkins for that?

4 - I think OSU is a better team than Mizzou was in '04, so I think they will probably end up 7-5, but yeah the similarities are there.  They're still mathematically alive for the South right now, right?  If they win out, including beating OU, they win the South.  It's not likely, especially since they have to go to Norman, but that's what they have to play for.  I think ku is going to get their best effort, because honestly who has a bigger bullseye on them in our conference than kansas right now?  All 3 teams ku has left would LOVE to be the ones to ruin that season.  OSU has a reasonably good shot to do so, Iowa State has virtually no chance to do so, and Mizzou has a wonderful chance to do so.  On the other hand, OSU may realize they can't lose another game this season and end up playing tight.  ku is exactly the kind of team that will take advantage of you if you're playing scared.

5 -

Mizzou - 48
aTm - 13

kansas - 24
Oklahoma State - 21

Tech - 31
Texas - 38

kansas state - 20
Nebraska - 24

Colorado - 21
Iowa State - 27

Baylor - 0
Oklahoma - 77 (to get back in front of ku)

Bonus - I guess I should probably read this column to figure out what you're talking about...

rptgwb: 1 - I think Kansas' win on the road at Texas A&M said a lot more than their blowout of Nebraska. Missouri had a lot more to prove last week. Rather than playing arguably the conference's worst team at home like Kansas did, Missouri had to travel to a place where they historically have had trouble winning, a place where Bob Stoops and Oklahoma were handed their only loss. Couple this with the intercepted screen pass on Daniel's first throw, and I thought "Here we go again." They way they responded, especially on the road, showed me a lot.

2 - I like Franchione to win it, just to try to fire the Aggies up before their 11/23 date at Kyle with the Texas Longhorns. It's harder to tell who has quit more: the Aggies or the Huskers. I think Callahan gets fired the day after the season ends, and the same can be said for Morriss. I spoke with Guy Morriss after the K-State loss and he just looks defeated and beaten.

3 - Give Mike Alden credit? This combination of words makes no sense to me.

4 - OSU is WAY too bipolar for my tastes. When the offense is humming, there is little most defenses can do to stop them. But if the offense sputters, they are in a lot of trouble. They could easily beat Kansas if they protect the ball and force Reesing into bad throws, but I just don't see it happening. At best, using the Mizzou 2004 analogy, this could be OSU's "Mizzou-Texas" game, where they play a top-ranked team very close until giving it away late and realizing, "Hey, we're Mizzou/OSU."

5 - Picks:
MU 41, ATM 13
KU 38, OSU 30
TT 34, UT 31
KSU 35, NU 14
ISU 17, CU 14
OU 55, BU 3

Bonus - Hell no. Screw the columnists - they're only looking for kneejerk reactions like that anyway. Don't discredit the fine work done by Graham Watson, the Mizzou beat writer for the P-D. In my opinion, she's done an outstanding job thus far this year.

The Boy: Yeah, I think Baylor would be doing Guy Morriss a favor by letting him go at this point...and who the hell would take that job?  Grant Teaff's a spry 73 ...think he'd take the job again?

Any other issues to put on the table?

Michael Atchison: There’s always someone out there who thinks he can do the impossible.  Who in his right mind would have wanted the Kansas State job when Bill Snyder took over there?

Did anyone notice that the hoops team played an exhibition over the weekend?

The Beef: You know...I DID notice that about the basketball team (as well as noticing that FSN in St. Louis chose to STAY with the kU game instead of switching over...which made absolutely no sense, but who am I to decide what people in STL want to watch).  I cannot say I paid a lot of attention to it, am curious and cautiously optimistic about the season, but while I believe we are better team than last year, I also think the tougher non-con may work against our hopes of this team progressing to an NCAA tourney team.

The Boy: I record it it...haven't watched it yet, lol.  I do intend to be there tomorrow night, though.  Sounds like Carroll was all sorts of efficient.  We're going to get demolished on the boards this year (even worse than last year, considering we managed to get even smaller), but it won't matter if we're forcing an insane amount of turnovers...and yes, the schedule does certainly get tougher.  It will be interesting to see how we do against some strong teams early, especially since a lot of them probably haven't played against this style in quite a long time.

ZouDave: Perhaps I can now connect with the Mizzou fans that seem apathetic still about about football team, in that I just don't have a care or concern about our basketball team right now and won't pay any kind of attention to them until after Mizzou's bowl game (maybe in between Conference Championship Game and Bowl Game).  I certainly hope they do well, and won't root for ANYONE else, but it's football season and that's all I care about right now.

I think our NCAA tournament chances rest almost solely on our conference finish.  Obviously, we can't go out in the non-con and win 4 games and expect to make it anywhere in March but I don't think that's expected.  I think unless we just absolutely tear up the non-con, though, that we're going to have to be a 10 win conference team to get into the tournament.  We have no name recognition right now and won't be getting the benefit of anything.  We have to prove it on the court against our peers.  In my opinion, anything less than 10-6 in the Big XII means no chance of getting into the dance (with the obvious exception being if we could win the Big XII tourney).

Doug: What the hell is this basketball talk?  Actually, KU has played both exhibition games now and I didn't realize either one was taking place.  I'm not even really sure when the season opener is.

Speaking of FSN Midwest, Seth, they were running the crawl about the MU exhibition game in Kansas City too, so I think the decision about staying with KU/NU was an overall network decision.  I imagine everyone across the country had to stay with that game to the very end.

The Beef: See...but that just seems strange to me, since I know they can break the signal locally...kansas city I can certainly understand keeping the game on (though at that point...it was WAY out of hand), but in STL...just strange.

I also saw TWO Big 10 teams have fallen in exhibition to two D-2 teams thus far.  Ohio State fell last night and Michigan State a couple of nights ago I think.

Michael Atchison: Contractually, I doubt that FSN has the right to cut away from a Big 12 game in Big 12 territory, and practically, I can’t imagine them leaving a late-season game involving a top ten team in favor of the start of an exhibition hoops game.  I don’t know what the rating for the basketball game was across the state, but I can’t imagine it was a very big number.

And Dave, I know you have the cranial capacity to care about two things at once.  You won’t pay any attention if/when the basketball team faces some combination of UCLA/Maryland/Michigan State in Kansas City?  Or the Braggin’ Rights game?  I think this team has the potential to surprise people, and I know they’re going to be entertaining to watch.