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Rock M Roundtable!

1 - Braggin' Rights: a) Who's going?  b) Will Mizzou break the streak?  c) How much would a loss hurt the tourney resume?

2 - Norm: a) Who watched his Monday broadcasting tour-de-force?  b) Who thought he was, uhh, chemically altered?  c) Can we pool together some money to make sure that he does color-commentary for every Mizzou basketball game until he's no longer with us?  Or maybe petition to have him replace Dicky V until he comes back in February?

3 - If you were to watch only one (or if you were forced to watch one, depending on how you view bowl games), which pre-Christmas bowl gets the nod: Utah/Navy (Poinsettia), Cincinnati/Southern Miss (PapaJohn', New Mexico/Nevada (New Mexico), BYU/UCLA (Vegas), Boise State/East Carolina (Hawaii)?

4 - On a scale of 1-10, how worried are you that Mizzou will play with a "We should be in the BCS" hangover on January 1, a la 1998 K-State?

5 - Since I already asked about Braggin' Rights above, no predictions this week (make sure you've done the Rock M Bowl Pick 'Em!), so...instead...anybody have any lovely holiday plans?  Doug?  Going to Miami (I hate KU)?

Click 'Full Story' for the answers.  But I'll warn you now...if you don't like toilets, warts, Tila Tequila, Joe Paterno, and Skandar Akbar, you might not want to click 'Full Story'.

Eh, click it anyway.

Michael Atchison: 1 - a) Me.  B) Yes.  C) A lot.  The wins over Maryland and Purdue were nice, but the Tigers have let slip away three other chances to impress the committee.  They had their chances against Michigan State, Arkansas and Cal, and couldn’t close.  If they’re going to be a bubble team (and I suspect they are), they need wins like this one.

2 - a) Me.  b) I think he was just in the holiday spirit; you can’t not have fun when wearing socks like that.  C) there isn’t enough money in the world to keep him from spending part of the winter in Palm Springs.  Plus, I’d miss Jon Sundvold if Coach Stewart did all the games.

3 - I’d probably watch BYU and UCLA, because it’s more likely something spectacular would happen in that game.  But Poinsettias are lovely.

4 - If 1 is "not at all worried," I’m a 1.  They lost their chance to control their fate, so no whining.  Plus, if Darren McFadden can’t get their attention, they don’t belong on the field anyway.

5 - Braggin’ Rights, Blues vs. Red Wings, pawning off the kids on their grandparents.  It’s the most wonderful time of the year.

rptgwb: 1A - Will not be going - I'm down in Dallas at the moment, preparing to enjoy 18 rounds of golf in beautiful 60-degree weather (How's that feel, Midwest?)

1B - I feel confident about this team's chances to break the streak, but I'm still the product of a generation where Illinois has come up big in bigger games than Mizzou. At this point, mark me down for a close MU win, but I am VERY shaky on that pick.

1C - I think the loss kills the tournament resume unless the Tigers come up huge in Big 12 play. The Illinois, Purdue, and Arkansas games are on the schedule to please the tournament committee, and 1-2 against those teams certainly won't cut it (especially when you throw in a loss to Cal).

2A - I missed out, but boy did I hear about it...

2B - I don't know, but I can only assume...

2C - FIRE PINKEL TO FREE UP CASH FOR NORM! I kid, of course. And replace Dickie V until February? How about replace Dickie V until, well, forever?

3 - Give me BYU/UCLA. BYU is always entertaining to watch, if for nothing else than to see a collection of 26-year-olds play a collection of 19-22 year-olds. Plus, watching UCLA fall apart this year has been great drama and here's to hoping for a great season finale in that regard.

4 - 9.678976. I'm ALREADY pissed off. I'm already preparing arguments for after the game citing their lack of fire and their whining causing a poor Cotton Bowl performance. Please prove me wrong...

5 - Family, friends, golf, BBQ, football, beautiful weather, not being in the middle of the Midwest ice storms...

The Beef: 1 - I will be there with three other people...I HOPE Mizzou will break the streak, they really need to.  The KC folks evidently showed up EXTREMELY strong for the games there, but the Mizzou attendance at this game has been waning for a good few years now, and I imagine that trend will continue given the support (or lack thereof) we have seen so far during the home schedule.  And I think Gabe said it best in his power’ed up yesterday...this does not really make or break our tournament, but turns a lot of tough games later in the season into games we really will need to win.

2 - I did watch much of the 2nd half of the game (saw some of the 1st half, just without sound) and I did comment to the Tailgate Queen that I felt that Norm potentially had too in him.  I still loved him turning down McLaughlin’s breakfast request.  I am fine with him calling games, as he seems to shut McLaughin up, which I cannot complain about.  Maybe Hrabowski can during the season when I am subjected to Cardinal games (and given the way their off season is going, he probably will be....HEY OH!!!)  And love him or hate him, I wish Dickie V the best of luck on his recovery and was glad to hear the procedure was a one deserves to have their money maker taken from them before they are ready.

3 - I will likely try to watch pieces of all of them, though I will enjoy Ian Johnson tearing through East Carolina and all the replays of the end of the Boise/OU game from last year.  I would LOVE for Southern Miss to win for their "fired for no good reason" coach Bowers.  I will watch the game tonight because you cannot get enough triple option when it is not Nebraska ramming it down your own throat.  As for the other know I will watch.

4 - I am with Atch on this one...we are in uncharted territory and I think we have a serious pride factor going on for two reasons.  #1 – To prove we were in fact screwed out of the BCS, and the only way we can do that is to win this game.  #2 – We have a lot of players from TX who are certain to have more family and friends in the stands than normal games, so I think that helps.  And with this being our third bowl game in a row and 4th in the last 5, I think we are likely getting a handle on how to better prepare for these.

5 - I just wanted to start off this next paragraph with the letter "I".  As for our plans...a good friend is coming back from Air Force training at the end of the week, so my wife and brother-in-law and I will be glad to see him.  A bar we once worked at/frequented frequently/one of us managed is set to reopen after a year and a half, so I imagine we may spend some time down there.  I have back to back 2 day work weeks, so that is lovely.  We head to Dallas on the 29th for 4 days, staying at the lovely Adolphus A Noble House Hotel in downtown Dallas (thanks for the amazing rates) and are excited about that.  However, we may have to have an intervention with RPT while we are down there....18 ROUNDS of golf seems a little much.

The Boy: Yeah, I was going to mention the "18 rounds" thing...that's pretty much a round for every day of the break.  My hands are getting blisters just thinking about that...

Oh, and "frequented frequently"?  Nice.

1 - My parents will be coming to town, and I didn't think they'd appreciate me being in StL when they got here.  So no, I won't be going.  Two things are preventing me from being super-confident about bringing home a win: a) the Braggin' Rights losing streak (8 straight now?) has broken me down, and b) against physical defenses, we tend to launch waaaaay too many 3-pointers.  That's fine if they're falling like they did against McNeese State, but they probably won't be.  I like our chances to cause a bunch of turnovers, but without a smoothly-flowing offense, it'll be close at the end.  And we don't usually win close games against Illinois.  But I'm an optimist!  Mizzou 73, Illinois 69!

And yes...I loss wouldn't kill our NCAA chances, but it would pretty much clinch that we'd have to go 10-6 in conference (and beat Mississippi State) to feel comfortable.  9-7 in a weak (I think) Big 12, along with losses to Mich State, Cal, Arkansas, and Illinois, would not be an impressive enough resume.

2 - Utterly fantastic.  I didn't think he could top last year's game in Ames (when he was talking about Kalen Grimes bringing the nails up out of the floor), but he trounced it.  I usually DVR cupcake games and fast forward once it starts becoming a blowout.  I couldn't fast-forward any of this because it was just too entertaining.  And he topped it by losing his mind when Berardini hit his typical end-of-game 3-pointer.  The only thing more entertaining than Norm was McLaughlin trying to keep him under control, then giving up and asking him to tell another story.  And I think the only reason I wouldn't want him to do every game is, I want to fast-forward!

3 - No matter who's in the Hawaii Bowl, I've always got to watch the Hawaii Bowl.  It's part of my Christmas tradition at this point.  It's pretty much guaranteed to be one of the 2-3 most entertaining bowls of the season, even when Hawaii's not involved.  And Boise-ECU has the potential to be the 49-45 game I'm accustomed to seeing from that game.

4 - If we were talking about the Gator Bowl, I'd be saying 9.5.  But with so many players playing in their home state (which I realize didn't help '98 KSU a whole lot), specifically with Chase playing in Dallas, I don't see it happening.  Plus, a) it's getting hyped as one of the season's best bowls, and b) it's Heisman finalist vs Heisman finalist.  So I'm going with about a 2.  And beyond that, a buddy of mine are rolling up to OKC to watch the Flaming Lips' New Years Eve show (guaranteed to be the greatest concert I've ever seen), then rolling back down to Dallas for the game.  No way Mizzou would dare screw up what could be the best 16 hours of my life from an entertainment/sports perspective.

5 - Parents coming to down, watching the Hawaii Bowl, going out to see Walk Hard on Sunday, eating Velveeta/Rotel dip and watching John Cusack movies on Christmas Eve...yup, pretty much the typical holiday for The Boy and Family.

The Beef: Well...I else would you describe how often we were down there?  I mean...The Queen worked there for 5-6 summers I think....then managed it...I was a part-time/not on the payroll/happy hour/weekend bartender and we got engaged there for Pete’s sake.  I believe that constitutes "frequented frequently"

ZouDave: 1 - I am not going, because I'm leaving early on Sunday morning to go to California for Christmas so it wouldn't be a good idea for me to be in St. Louis the night before.  I will be watching, though.  And I don't think Mizzou breaks the streak, though I think it will be like last year where we're in the game the whole time.  I just don't think we're better than they are yet.  On the other hand, they've lost to every good team they've played so it's hard to tell how good they are.  I don't think a loss hurts our tourney resume all that much, because I think it's going to be our conference play that gets us in or out.  We have to be a minimum of 9-7 in the Big XII to get into the tourney.  10-6 or better, and I think we're in no matter what.  I think we'll have enough wins at the end of our non-con that our overall record would be good enough as long as we finished that strong in conference.

2 - I heard about it, but did not watch it.  The general consensus seems to be that Norm had tied one on before going on the air, though.  And from what I've seen of him in the past, Norm does an excellent job with color commentary.  I always particularly liked it when he was doing Quin's games and was basically coaching from the press table.  Norm has forgotten more about basketball then Quin Snyder will ever know.  How did I make this about Quin?  And I'd be fine with a vacuum cleaner replacing Vitale.  It would just be yet another thing that makes a lot of indiscriminate noise for a few minutes and sucks.  Would anyone know the difference?

3 - I think I'd have to go with Utah/Navy.  I always like watching the service academy teams play, and you gotta like the Utes.  They've got the iron man kicker in Sakoda whose been on certain All-America lists as both a kicker and a punter.  But, honestly, I'll watch just about any of them.  It's football, after all.

4 - Since you didn't give me 0 as an option, I'll go with 1.  I actually couldn't be less worried about it.  I don't think the players are nearly as offended by this as many of the fans are.  They aren't playing for the National Title, but they are playing a New Year's Day bowl against a great opponent on national television.  This team, time and time again, proved it was different all season.  It would be wrong to expect them to let up now.  I think we get their A effort in Dallas, especially since I think we'll have probably 20,000 fans down there cheering them on.

5 - My parents, my grandmother, my wife and I are heading to California on Sunday to spend Christmas with my sister, her husband, and their twins.  The twins will turn 2 on December 30, so getting to experience Christmas with kids that age is going to be a blast.  And I would say how great it is to get away from this Missouri weather for Christmas but a) the weather in KC over Christmas is going to be fine and b)  I LOVE cold, icy, snowy weather.  But I really am looking forward to this trip.  Going to be a lot of fun.  I get back on the 27th, just so I can turn around and leave for Dallas a few days later.

And thank you for waiting for me to do this today.  I you say...not good...yesterday.  In short, I would have had to type my answers from the bathroom.

The Beef: That sucks about your illness...but let’s be honest...would any of us really have put it past you to actually type your answers from the bathroom?

The Boy: You haven’t lived until you’ve toilet-blogged.

ZouDave: I’ve frequently done something one letter off of that.

The Beef: I did not know you were a toilet long you been into that?

Michael Atchison: Now we’re talking.  Who wouldn’t want to read this?

ZouDave: Can this go in any direction that isn’t bad at this point?

The Beef: Let’s be honest....this could be our last one of the year....we may as well go out with a bang and give our readers a reason to come on back to Rock M Nation in 2008

ZouDave: I think we've stumbled upon the through process for "writers" of reality shows.  Is this sweeps week?

Michael Atchison: If only we could get Tila Tequila and some LA tattoo artist to chime in...

The Beef: Hey...lots of jobs to be had right now as a Hollywood writer....plenty of job opening out there as long as you don’t mind not being in the union

ZouDave: Something tells me I’m going to want to know who Tila Tequila is.  She sounds smart.

The Beef: Not only is she smart, but I believe very loving too....she loves EVERYONE

(here is why Doug and Robot should respond faster to these....the crazy train derails quickly around these parts)

Michael Atchison: The way I understand it, whomever wins the bowl prediction contest (regardless of gender) gets to marry Tila and/or Flava Flav.

The Boy: Seriously...I don't even want to think about where this conversation will be an hour from now...

Michael Atchison: I’m guessing it will somehow involve genital warts.

mizzourobot: I'm starring this thread in Gmail with the following labels: toilet blogging, Tila Tequila, genital warts, braggin' rights.

In the words of Shannoff, BEST. THREAD. EVER.

Doug: Well, before it degenerates even more than it already has... I'll go ahead and toss in my thoughts.

1 - Big surprise... I won't be going.  I really have no feel on if MU can break the losing streak.  If MU gets down like they did against Purdue, I don't think Illinois will do the same things to hurt themselves late in the game like the Boilermakers did.  Example, methodically walking the ball up the court against the press, when obviously that was not working.  Purdue burned, what?, two timeouts and had turned it over on a 10 second violation.  As much of a clown as Bruce Weber is, he's still a very good game coach.  And, considering the fact Purdue just lost to Wofford, yes, Missouri needs the Braggin' Rights win to improve their non-con resume.

2 - I think I'll just skip this one... except to say... KU honored Norm when he retired before MU did!  I'm good now.

3 - Please... there'll be Mormons in Vegas?  UCLA/BYU all the way.

4 - Left-out-of-BCS hang-over for the team?  Probably a 3 or 4.  Actual-New-Year's-Eve-Hangover for the fanbase with an 11 AM kick-off?  About a 22.

5 - No, I don't have the financial wherewith all to make it to Miami.  I might buy a t-shirt, though.  I'll be hanging out at home, having the work Wednesday through Friday next week (TV stations don't close down, you know), and then taking a couple days off around New Year's.

God, I live a dull life.

ZouDave: Alright, since it's pretty much my fault this tangent went so..., well, off the rails is a perfect way to put it, I'll at least ATTEMPT to bring it back while we wait for Doug the Bounty Hunter and Bender the Robot.

I heard a rumor (and some of you may have heard it as well) that Coach Pinkel turned down a job offer from Arkansas before Petrino was hired there.  The rumor also was that the offer to Pinkel was the same as the offer to Petrino:  3 years, $14.4M.  If there's any truth to this at all, do you expect Pinkel's raise to be something near that total?  I don't think there's any reason to even discuss whether or not Pinkel's getting a new contract, because if he doesn't then I just don't understand anything.

Michael Atchison: I’ve not heard that.  I’m sure that Pinkel will get a raise, but I can’t imagine that it will be anywhere close to that stratosphere.  If I’m doing the math right . . . divide by three . . . carry the one . . . that’s $4.8 MILLION A YEAR!  He’d have to get a big raise to make half that much.  That’s pure SEC crazy money.

The Beef: I had not heard that rumor, so that is interesting to me.  Speaking of rumors, how funny was that Mangino to WVU thing last night?  Way to go LJW.

Anyway, I don’t know off the top of my head where Pinkel stands with salary, but I am sure it is not that close to that level.  I also have to believe that any raise would put him closer to that type of deal, but likely not AT I just don’t see our AD having quite the resources to afford that contract.  Attendance and TV money certainly had to be up from where they believed it was going to be this year, but I don’t think we are there yet.  However, I think we are once again going to be very fortunate and dodge the bullet of an assistant leaving, as DC seems to have had a couple of interviews but no takers and no one else’s names are really coming up.  Reward GP and the his folks and see how much longer we can keep this up, since I really do believe the fact that the staff is in tact has been a HUGE advantage for us.

The Boy: If he turned down that much money and doesn't ask for something resembling that in a raise with Mizzou, then...well...I believe that falls into the "loyal to a fault" category.

Doug: Here's a retraction from the LJWorld on the Mangino story.

I think I'm going to start calling papers and doing the exact same thing.

Oh, and you're surprised that Arkansas was willing to toss around SEC-crazy type money for Pinkel?  That's all they do down there.  Well, that and moonshine.

The Boy: And quail-hunting.  Mmm...roasted quail...

ZouDave: Well without naming who I heard this from, I will say he has had good info in the past and it's definitely someone that at least 3 of you know.  That should narrow it down nicely, if you put a few seconds of thought into it.

Here's basically what he said (and if he ends up reading this, he's going to kick my ass)

He was at an annual Christmas party held by one of the Mizzou coaches, and was told there that Pinkel had turned down the Arkansas job the same day that Petrino accepted it for the same money.  He also said that Pinkel will be turning down the Michigan job, should it be offered, because he is very entrenched here and really does want to retire here, but obviously wants to leverage a raise because of the success he's had this year and because at least one and probably two or more schools are willing to pay him more than Missouri currently is.

He also said that if Coffman hadn't suffered the injury setback that he has, that Coffman had every intention of turning pro this year.  Apparently the NFL is all over him because of his size and catching ability, and are not concerned with the lack of experience lining up with his hand down in formation ready to take on blockers.  But it appears there's basically no chance Coffman is going pro this year because the surgery will prevent him from working out when the NFL has their combines and such.  So, some good has come from it.

Paul Coffman was on 810AM this morning and said that the problem with Chase's ankle is that it's just extremely painful, but there's no chance of long-term problems by playing on it in Dallas.  He just has to be able to handle the pain.  I guess another part of the problem is that along with the bone spurs, Chase also picked up a couple of bone bruises in that ankle and that's what prevented him from playing in San Antonio.  The month off between then and the Cotton Bowl should allow those bruises to heal, so hopefully we'll have CC at his best.

The Boy: least it wasn't a double-whammy of losing Coffman for the Big 12 Title Game AND all of 2008.  The lack of his presence hurt us considerably in San Antonio, but obviously...long-term, I guess it's probably best that he got hurt then...

ZouDave: I honestly would have thought that Rucker's example of coming back for the Senior season, improving your game almost exponentially, being THE MAN on the team, etc., would have been enough.  But, it may be that Chase was hearing possible 1st Round status if his combine went well.  You never know.  I definitely won't blame anyone that goes pro early and is a 1st round pick.  You do that, you're set for life with that money even if you flame out (Keyon Dooling, I'm looking at you).  I don't think Chase would have been a 1st round pick but I'm not a GM in the NFL yet so what do I know?  Maybe he's exactly what some teams are looking for?

Oh well.  He'll return for his final season, finish it out with Chase Daniel, those two will get an ovation like nothing we've ever heard at Faurot on Senior Day next year, hopefully he'll get as many if not more post-season accolades as Rucker got and go on to be a 1st round pick in 2009.  The Mizzou receiving record book will be called Chase Coffman's Player Card.

The Boy: But he's not a true tight end, so he won't get 1st-team All-Big 12...


The Beef: Awww.....I was hoping for General Akbar or whatever his name is there....

ZouDave: He's an Admiral, dammit, show some respect!

The Beef: I only have that title reserved for your father....

Michael Atchison: Can I be difficult for a minute and quibble with the characterization of Keyon Dooling as "flaming out" as a pro?  He’s not a star, for certain, but he’s in his eighth NBA season, getting quality minutes almost every night, as he has done throughout his career, and he’s making more than $3.5 million this year.  Unless I’m missing someone I shouldn’t, he has already had the fourth-longest NBA career of any Mizzou player, and he could get very close to the top.  Only Anthony Peeler (13 years), Larry Drew (10) and Jon Sundvold (9) logged more seasons that Keyon has.

The Beef: Yeah....I was going to make the same statement, but it got lost in the work email, but I would agree.  It takes something to continue to exist in the NBA and be productive, and Keyon is doing it.  Go to or similar site and look through the years and years of drafts and you will be shocked as to how much LESS of a bust he is when compared to a lot of people in the top 10 through the last 10 years.

ZouDave: I thought that was going to come out wrong, but like BEEF I was in the middle of work stuff and didn't really have time to find a better way to say it.

To quickly elaborate, my point was more that I didn't blame Keyon at all for leaving early because he was going to be a 1st round pick even though I think most people knew he'd benefit a lot from being here another year (skill wise).  The comment about Dooling should have been before the flaming out part, because I'm fully aware he didn't flame out (That would be Kareem Rush, or better still Jaron Rush).  Now if I want to get hypertechnical, I could say that as a 10th overall pick (like Keyon) you would expect more than what he's done but there's at least 1000 college players every single year that would gladly trade where they are for Dooling and I fully recognize that.

What I attempted, poorly, to get across was that even if you did go early and flame out , as long as you were a 1st round pick you should be set financially for life so I could never blame you.  If Coffman had gone pro this year (or even eventually does, because it is still possible), gets drafted like 24th overall or something, and ends up being a special teams player for 4 or 5 years and then retires and goes into coaching or something I'd have no beef with him.  1st round money is more money than most of us will see in a lifetime, and he'd get it when he was 21, 22 years old.

I don't think Coffman will flame out, though.  He's way too good.  It's pretty obvious he can make amazing catches, and it's pretty obvious that he can block, and it's pretty obvious he can move with the football.  He's going to be a starting TE in the NFL for many years.

mizzourobot: Rush had 22 points the other night for the resurgent Pacers, and I almost keeled over.

"The dude I used to watch buy Reese's peanut butter cups every other day at Brady?!"

The Beef: Sheesh Dave...people just crushing you left and right today

ZouDave: I should have stopped right around the time toilet blogging got brought up.

The Beef: all you need to do is talk about how Kleiza is a bust and should have never left school and you will run the trifecta

Michael Atchison: This message has been processed by Symantec's AntiVirus Technology. was not scanned for viruses because too many nested levels of files were found.

Hey, Dave, remember when Wake Forest visited the Hearnes Center years ago, and that big kid Tim Duncan had his way with Kelly Thames?  What ever happened to that guy?

ZouDave: Tim Davis?  Never heard of him.

mizzourobot: Linas Kleiza crashed the internetz.

The Boy: Yeah, apparently even the thought of Kleiza's hot girlfriend doesn't make it pass the Symantec filters...

ZouDave: tell you what, Albert White did the exact right thing by leaving early.  You want a shining example of doing it right, look no further.

The Boy: Touche.

The Beef: Well played there sir....well played.

(is that alright symantec?)



(yes the Boy....that one was for you)

The Boy: Skandar Akbar!!

ZouDave: Ok, last picture response and then I really have to get back to work...but...Skandar Akbar?

The Beef: No better way to close it out...but yes...Skandar Akbar.

The Boy: Proof that Wikipedia knows everything: