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Rock M Roundtable!

1 - With the 2008 season in the books for Mizzou, what's the single lingering image you take away from this Tiger season?  Doug, I bet I know what your answer is going to be...

2 - What would have been a better finish for Missouri this season--beating OSU or Kansas and losing the Holiday Bowl to finish 10-4, or losing to OSU and Kansas, but winning the Alamo Bowl (albeit it in uninspiring fashion) to finish 10-4?  Which one would have felt more satisfying/disappointing now that all is said and done?

3 - Disappointment or no, Missouri has gone 22-6 in the last two seasons and 30-11 in the last three.  Is this the high point of the Pinkel era, or can he bring Missouri back to this level again now that this batch of seniors (and at least one stud underclassman) have played their last game in Missouri uniforms?

4 - Mizzou plays Georgia on a basketball court in Athens this Saturday.  Georgia needed a buzzer-beater 3 to beat Wofford and has already lost to Loyola-IL and Texas A&M-CC (the A&M cross-country team?  Oh...A&M-Corpus Christi...).  What % chance does Missouri have of losing this game on Saturday?

5 - New Year's Eve plans?

The Beef: 1 - I think my image will be a montage of Coffman catches, as each week I would find a picture of his latest effort and it would become the background on my work computer.  Right now, I have him going up over the Northwestern, coming back to the ball just a little bit and snagging it.  It will probably stay up there awhile.  I had the Okie State catch up for some time with the one-hand and the spinning and the ridiculousness…

2 - I will take what we got…I don’t think you can underscore how important it will be for these youngsters to finish with a win.  I think if we beat OSU or kU, we come into our bowl game favored…not by 2 TD’s, but favored all the same…so losing it would have stung and highlighted the other three losses more.  Now, most fans seem content enough to hang our hats on the 10 wins we had and finishing on a high note.

3 - I think we (obviously) dip next year, though how many games is still to be determined.  But I think (and I am sure this will be covered plenty by the time Aug ’09 rolls around) that the Big XII North is still going to be pretty ripe for the picking and I just do not see the improvement coming all too quick.  Pencil kU in as the team to beat next season because they will return a decent amount of the their offensive speciality players, but everyone else was either atrocious (kSU, ISU, CU) or will need to replace a good amount (NU).  Year after next when Mizzou has less to replace than they will next season, kU will lose a bunch, the other three will still be the other three and we will have to wait and see on NU.  So…long story short, I don’t know if this is the PEAK…might be record-wise, but I think we can continue to win Norths in the coming seasons…as for the south…oy.

4 - Hmmm…TRUE road game here…team needs to be ready to play.  As dominant as we have been in the two wins since…um….that one game…this game will go a lot further to clean our craw of that effort.  Win it, and 13-2 in OOC is virtually guaranteed.  The start of the conference season is also advantageous as well….so keep stringing the wins together, because we will likely need them once we reach the back-end of the Big XII.

Hmm…I did not answer your question…um…25 percent.

5 - Will probably be down at the Bar (Old Mill Stream on Main St. in St. Charles) for the duration seeing as…well…the Tailgate Queen manages/works there so I usually drink for cheap

Ridiculous Matt: 1. Seeing Daniel jog off the field shaking his head after a costly interception. Which one? They all pretty much looked the same, felt the same, and hurt the same.

2. Beating KU and losing to Northwestern would have been just fine to me. We walked off with a win, sure, but I would have felt a whole hell of a lot better finishing 10-2 with a border war win than 9-3 and having Rock Chalk haunt my dreams. Losing to Northwestern at that point would have been more of an awesome comeback story by an underdog. This felt like us solidifying just how mediocre we were this season.

3. I think we can go higher. I'm actually pretty excited about the Washington era outright. With a balanced attack, I think we might be able to get more done against the South teams, even if we can't beat them outright. Gotta hope, right?

4. I'm not getting bit in the ass like I was at Braggin' Rights. 2%.

5. Doubleheader of Seven Pounds and The Day The Earth Stood Still, followed by a six pack of Boulevard.

The Boy: 1 - I realize I'm supposed to remember some disappointments here...and that final INT against OSU certainly comes to mind...but really, the two things I'll most remember about this season are Jeremy Maclin's Alamo punt return, Maclin's Illinois kick return, and Coffman's hurdles.  He really has been the best player at his position that I've ever seen, and memories of those two guys outweigh any lingering disappointments.

2 - I posed this question because I really didn't know the answer.  There's something refreshing about winning your bowl, if we'd lost to Oregon, it would have been in high-scoring fashion a la last night's UO-OSU game, and we'd have spent the offseason hearing about how bad our defense sucked.  Instead, the defense bailed us out in the Alamo Bowl, and we get to (hopefully...if he stays true to his word) spend an offseason watching Sean Weatherspoon's name pop up on just about everybody's preseason All-American list.

In the end, though, I guess the cop-out answer is that it really doesn't matter, and 10-4 isn't the 12-2 (or better) that we were hoping for...that's right, I just copped out of answering my own question.

3 - While I can legitimately see Mizzou going anywhere between 5-7 and 10-2 next year, it's clear that next year will a) likely be a decent-sized step backwards, and b) hopefully be geared toward another surge in 2010-11.  It's hard to imagine replacing guys like Daniel, Coffman and (I assume) Maclin, but this is what recruiting is for.  Mizzou's recruiting ranking seems to have inched up each of the last few seasons, and here's where we find out how good the staff really is.  While I'm not 100% optimistic that we'll see this level of winning again anytime soon, it's going to be pretty exciting to find out.

4 - I'm going to say we have a 40% chance of losing, simply because I can see Georgia sneaking up on us a lot like Mississippi State did last year.  Granted, MSU last year was better than Georgia is this year, but when you go on the road you always run the risk of a home team catching fire early and not allowing you to establish your presence.  Survive the first 10-15 minutes without letting Georgia get hot, and I think Mizzou wins this game by 10-15.

5 - Not a damn thing!  Grabbing some dinner, entering some football stats, watching Dick Clark (yes, he's supposed to be on TV tonight despite the wheelchair and walker, I thnk), and getting ready to get up early and watch the Cotton Bowl.  Oh right...they decided for no apparent reason that the Cotton Bowl should be on January 2, when I'm at work...bastards...

Doug: 1 - Let's see... is there a Missouri player in this picture?

Why, yes.  Yes, there is.

2 - I think a 10-win season is always going to be a positive, no matter how you get there.  I wish KU had a chance to get there, but I think finishing the season with a win is always a big deal, since you're talking about building towards spring practice.

3 - I think Beef's right.  Next year, KU will probably be a co-favorite with Nebraska (because, what the hell, they're Nebraska), but I think the days of NU and K-State dominating the North are over and the division could be a toss up just about every single year.

4 - Remember how close I was on the percentage for the Braggin' Rights Game?  Uh... 20%.

5 - Let's see... I have to work tonight.  The news never stops (which is really a bald-faced lie, since nobody goes out and does anything on holidays, except for drunk driving, and I'll be off work well before those calls start coming in).  Anyway, I'll keep one eye on the Insight Bowl during the afternoon, and then try to run off as quickly as possible.

And, Bill... you see my point about the Cotton Bowl, now, right? Right?

The Boy: Yes, but you see how I managed to gripe about it without using a bunch of f-bombs?  Mmm?

Doug: Gripe without cursing?

Hmmm... no, sorry, doesn't compute.

The Beef: I believe the correct answer here would have been:

“Hmmm…, sorry, doesn’t f*cking compute.”

Doug: Oh, f*ck, I always screw up something.

Thanks for pointing out my f*ck up there, Seth.

rptgwb: 1. I don't know that I have one single lingering image. There's lasting images of Coffman's hurdles and Spoon's big plays, but there's also images of DBs getting torched and Chase turning the ball over in crucial spots. That all sticks with me.

2. Honestly. I probably would have taken the Holiday Bowl loss considering the way we played in the Alamo Bowl. It wasn't exactly an awe inspiring performance.

3. This is the high point of the Pinkel era... for now. Missouri is on the map. The major leg work has been done. It's up to future classes to carry the torch. It may not be easy or likely, but I certainly don't think it's impossible.

4. 15 percent. Before the Illinois game, I would have said 5.

5. I'll be at the American Airlines Center for Tux & Pucks as my Stars take on Beef's Devils tonight.

The Beef: Got to see my Devils last night...not a great effort, but certainly passable against the down-trodden STL squad.  We do seem to play a lot better on the road than at home, but back to back road games is still tough.

ZouDave: 1 - Maclin in the open field.  He had some pretty awesome catch and runs last year, but nothing like this year.  He was constantly breaking free in the secondary and just running for huge TDs.  Loved it.
Unfortunately, another lasting image for me is going to be seeing our kick team run on the field on a 4th and goal from the 1 against Oklahoma State.  Our season stopped being magical at that moment and never got back on track.
2 - Tough call.  It's always nice to win the bowl game.  All things being equal, though, if we could have beaten kansas and still gotten to 10 wins I think I'd have to take that one.
3 - Well it's certainly the high point so far for Coach Pinkel, but there's just nothing that says we can't be better.  I remember reading an article in mid-November on from some hack (not an unoriginal hack, mind you, just a hack) that said if Pinkel couldn't get it done this year, he never would.  He cited the fact that Mizzou has its best QB ever, best WR ever, best TE ever, and a good RB and still couldn't get it done.  It immediately bothered me because Chase Daniel, our best QB ever, immediately followed Brad Smith, who was our best QB ever at the end of his career.  Chase Coffman, our best TE ever, followed Martin Rucker, who was our best TE ever at the end of his career.  Jeremy Maclin, our best WR ever, immediately followed Will Franklin, who may not have been our best WR ever but he's Top 5.  And Derrick Washington followed Tony Temple, who was our first back to ever go back-to-back 1000 yard seasons and Washington eclipsed 1000 in his first season as a starter.  The point is, we've continued to get these "best ever" players under Gary Pinkel.  There's simply nothing that says Missouri can't EVER have better players than right now (other than probably Coffman, who is the best college TE ever statistically).  If Chase Daniel and Jeremy Maclin were the best college QB and WR ever, it would be a different story.  But they're not, they're just really freaking good.  Who knows what we're going to think about Gabbert and Woodland in a year's time, you know?
4 - Let's say we have a 40% chance of losing it because it's on the road, but if we play our game I don't see how we're going to lose.
5 - Got the annual party at a friends house where there will be much drinking and general stupidity.  And this year, I'm bringing my XBOX 360 and Rock Band 2 over there to be the party game, so that's just going to be hilariously painful.

Michael Atchison: 1 - That’s a complicated question.  Can we go back and freeze time at the end of the Nebraska game?  The images most forcefully burned into my head came on back-to-back Saturdays at Arrowhead Stadium.  Let’s pick two:  (1) Chase Coffman jumping over everyone; and (2) Daniel to Maclin in overtime at the Alamo Bowl.  If that’s the last thing I’m going to see of those guys, those are things I’ll want to remember.

2 - This question is pretty metaphysical.  I don’t know.  I do know that, even with the win, the season seemed to go out with a whimper.  I suppose I would take beating OSU and/or Kansas.  And I’m going to surprise myself by putting OSU at the top.  That game really changed the feel of the season.  Before it, the team was a great sailboat with the wind at its backs.  After, everyone had to grab a paddle.

3 - My brain knows that it will be hard to do this again, especially the part that happened in 2007.  But I also know that real breakthrough success will involve getting a few freakish athletes on the offensive and defensive lines, and it sounds like one of those guys is coming.  I’ll take a leap of faith and say that he has another three-year run that equals this one before he retires.

4 - First true road game of the season, so there’s always a chance.  Georgia may not be good, but those are D-1 athletes.  I say there’s a 27% chance of losing.

5 - Plans are in flux, but it sounds like we’re hastily arranging the return of the World’s Lamest New Year’s Eve Party, a long-running tradition that we have with some friends that was interrupted last year by the Cotton Bowl.

The Beef: Does it seem strange to anyone there are as many bowl games today (5) as there are tomorrow?  I am looking forward to seeing how long Penn State can hang with USC…I am a sucker for tradition, and two teams like that in the Rose Bowl (for as much as I hate the Rose Bowl for always screwing something up with the overall BCS, it still has me with tradition…and Musberger)

The Boy: What's funny is, it's not really a traditional matchup, as Penn State's only been in the Big Ten for about 15 years...but it sure feels like one...and Musberger will make it feel like more of one...though hey, if Keith Jackson wanted to stop by the booth and chat during the game, all the better...

The Beef: True…while I am sure the teams have met before…I don’t believe it was ever on this stage.  Just the teams, the unis, the venue…hell…if they could just get my Keith Jackson or even Charlie Jones from NBC from further back in the day…I’d be a very happy man.

Michael Atchison: Charlie Jones became permanently unavailable earlier this year.

ZouDave: new job?

The Beef: I was just going best-case scenario...

(An hour later...)

ZouDave: Who would have thought talking about a dead guy would kill this thing.

The Beef: Oy…you are just full of them today

ZouDave: I gotta get them out of my system for the new year, apparently.

The Boy: So your New Year's resolution is to stop making jokes about dead guys?

ZouDave: no, it's to stop making bad puns.  Dead guys are fodder.

The Boy: Gotcha.  Just wanted to be clear so I knew what to call you on next week when you inevitably relapse...

The Beef: When’s the video coming out anyway Dave?

ZouDave: Man, I don't know.  Honestly, I think I may be about done with that (which will immediately take me from a hero to a villain in the online community, I expect).  Over the past 2 weeks, I think 5 or 6 of my videos have been pulled off of YouTube for violating copyright (a couple from this season, Nevada and Baylor, and then a few from last year or 2006).  Couple that with the fact that the KSU video got rejected twice upon uploading it because of copyright violation, it's just becoming a HUGE hassle.  I have a hard enough time finding music to use with a game anyway, then I still get to hear about how bad the music sucks from people on Tigerboard, PowerMizzou, and in the comments on YouTube.  Now the music companies are cracking down on YouTube to remove videos based on their songs being in the background, despite the fact that those same songs all appear on YouTube in one way or another so it's not like I'm giving something away for free that isn't already public domain.....
I've just grown tired of it.  We'll have to see how I feel about in July.  As for the Bowl the earliest it will be this weekend.  Normally I churn those things out the day after a game because I have all day Sunday to work on it, but with it being a night game and I had to work yesterday and today, then partying tonight so I probably won't be up too early tomorrow...and I'll be watching games, then I work on Friday and have a poker game Friday night...I think the absolute earliest I even start capturing it into my PC will be Saturday.  So maybe we'll see it on Sunday...if I can find music that isn't going to get the entire video rejected.

Michael Atchison: A solution:  Make the videos and then invite everyone on the internet over to your house to watch.

ZouDave: including Charlie Jones?

(Four hours later...)

ZouDave: wow, I get home today and 2 more of my Mizzou videos have been pulled (Sun Bowl 2006 and Nebraska 2008).

I think this may mark the end, unfortunately.  Either that or I have to stop putting it to music, which is one of the reasons I liked doing it in the first place.  I guess I really need to find an alternate place to host these things, but a lot of the other places (Vimio, etc.) rejected any I tried to upload immediately for the same reasons YouTube is now pulling them.  The RIAA strikes again, I guess.

Happy New Year.