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Rock M Roundtable!

1 - So I pointed out something I found interesting a couple days ago--we all say Gene Chizik's a good coach and he's doing a good job at ISU...but none of us actually includes ISU in any "future balance of power" conversations.  What gives?  What's Chizik's ceiling at ISU?

2 - Alright, give me an MU-ISU score.  And if this site had existed two years ago, I'd site everybody's predictions before the '06 game...pretty sure we all got that one massively wrong.  Except maybe Doug.

3 - Give me a record for ISU:

8/28: South Dakota State
9/6: Kent State
9/13: @ Iowa
9/20: @ UNLV
10/4: Kansas
10/11: @ Baylor
10/18: Nebraska
10/25: Texas A&M
11/1: @ Oklahoma State
11/8: @ Colorado
11/15: Missouri
11/22: @ Kansas State

4 - Ever been to Ames?

5 - So the mythical Rock M T-shirts are still on the table...and we've come up with three ideas for the back of the shirt
.  They're all stupid, and they're all awesome.  So which one would you wear?  Billy Connolly's nunchuks, the watermelon balls of fury, Rock-Flag-Eagle...or something that incorporates nunchuks, watermelons, rocks, flags, AND eagles?  And if you say the last one, you're volunteering to help with the design.

Michael Atchison: 1 - ISU suffers the soft bigotry of low expectations. If they look like they’re making an effort and not getting blown out, people call it progress. I think the likelihood that he’ll have big success is low, but not impossible. Twenty years ago, no one could have anticipated the run that K-State went on. Even a year ago, no one could have guessed that Kansas would win the Orange Bowl. Stranger things have happened than the rise of Iowa State. But not much stranger.

2 - Missouri 38, Iowa State 19

3 - I’ll give them 4-8.

4 - I’ve been near Ames. Does that count? I’ve also been to Iowa City. It’s cold there in the winter time.

5 - When you say "which one would you wear?" it seems to presuppose that I would wear one. That may be beyond my level of commitment.

The Beef: 1 - I think the ceiling at Iowa State is about where McCarney had it a few years ago. I think Chizik is a decent coach with good recruiting in-roads, and if given time, can get ISU back over .500 (since I see them having more potential right now than kSU who I think falls off the map after the JUCO thing fails them this year). I think with where Mizzou and kU now are…CU on their way a bit and NU…well…we’ll see where they end up…that ISU has a tougher road to go than did McCarney, but I think he can do a little better than he did in the end. It will probably ebb and flow, and I do not see ISU as a destination job for Chizik, so my guess is he takes the high point and parlays that into a better position.

2 - I say we go up there on some nasty weather day and are not as electric as we might come to expect, but I still expect us to win. I will say we grind out a 34-14 win, since I have NO idea what ISU has coming in on offense.

3 - 8/28: South Dakota State - win
9/6: Kent State - win
9/13: @ Iowa - loss
9/20: @ UNLV - win
10/4: Kansas - loss
10/11: @ Baylor - win
10/18: Nebraska – loss
10/25: Texas A&M - loss
11/1: @ Oklahoma State - loss
11/8: @ Colorado - loss
11/15: Missouri - loss
11/22: @ Kansas State – win

Wow…did I just give them 5 wins? Sheesh…guess so.

4 - I have been to one game there, to see Marcus James return a punt for a TD, but for us to lose in the end by some fairly high score. It was VERY cold and VERY windy. That is about all I remember.

5 - I don’t have the slightest idea about the rock/flag/eagle reference. I am still a lover of the Billy Connolly nunchuks…though transferring that on to a shirt would be tough.

rptgwb: 1. I think ISU is never included in the balance of power discussions because outside of being a game away from a North title every now and then, they've never had sustained success. Granted, this is the pot calling the kettle black since Mizzou just won its first North title and has been historically mediocre, but Mizzou had been building and gathering the horses to make this run. Chizik has no horses with with run and few bricks on which to build. I think his ceiling is creating a very competitive, tough, gutty football team capable of beating anyone on any given day, compiling 8-4 records or something along those lines.

2. MU 45, ISU 20

3. Somewhere between 2-10 and 5-7. I'm going to lock SD State and Baylor as wins. I'll throw Kent State, Iowa and UNLV as tossups. Officially, mark me down for 4-8.

4. Nope. And I feel OK about that.

5. I'm still in favor of the basic "A Blog for Ol' Mizzou" shirt to appeal to the masses, but when it comes to the specialty shirt, I'm partial to the nunchucks or the Sunny quote.

I'd probably get both the "'Thrust Nunchuck Upward' Lives Here" and the "Mizzou Football: Rock, Flag and Eagle" shirts. And if I could work some kind of deal, I'd still be interested in the Great Watermelon Balls of Fury shirt, but I'm sure nowhere near the interest MizzouRobot (or should I say Ridiculous Matt - who STILL hasn't reclaimed his old RMN account!) has in that slogan.

The Boy: Rock Flag Eagle = It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia (the greatest show ever) reference.  I watched an episode of that show early on and just didn't get into it at all.  Watched another episode, and I was hooked entirely.

1 - I think Chizik can build a team that a) plays really hard, b) plays really physical, and c) is a bear at home.  Depending on their schedule on any given year, a bowl should be within reach.  But I'm just not at all convinced he'll be able to bring in the talent/speed that others in the North are now bringing in.  I'm not totally sure KSU will fall off the map by any means, but they seem to be the most likely candidate, especially if KU and MU continue to make more and more recruiting inroads.  KU and MU are establishing themselves, CU appears to be establishing itself, NU is NU...yeah, the road to North success is a lot bumpier now.  It's no coincidence (to me) that ISU's biggest run of success came at the exact same point that KSU, NU, and CU were all falling, MU was going through some false starts, and KU was not yet ascending.  If four of those teams are in good shape, it'll be tough for Chizik to succeed beyond 7 wins there.

2 - Between the weather/wind and the likely physicality of ISU's defense, this will be a pretty tough game this late in the year.  Not tough as in, "I fear upset", but tough as in, we'll be bruised up and will have to earn our 31-10 win.

3 - Likely wins: SDSU, Kent State
Tossups: @ Iowa, @ UNLV, @ Baylor, NU, ATM
Likely losses: Kansas, @ OSU, @ CU, Missouri, @ KSU

I fully expect them to beat somebody at home, and since I've already made predictions for NU, I guess it'll have to be ATM.  Beat ATM and Baylor, lose (barely) to NU, UNLV (the Rebs stink, but this is a long road trip), Iowa.  Finish 4-8 (2-6).

4 - Predictably, I was on that trip with The Beef.  I remember a) Marcus James' punt return (and the ensuing melee in the Mizzou section, ahem), b) Outlaw's TD on the most gorgeous wheel route I've ever seen, c) knowing without a doubt that Seneca Wallace was going to drive ISU the length of the field for the winning TD, and d) throwing my hat down in disgust as we sprinted back to the car to beat traffic after the game (we were parked in a damn field, and it was either be the first ones out, or be stuck in said field for 3 hours).  Not my favorite trip, though I do seem to recall getting some Okie Joe's in KC at some point that weekend...which made everything alright...

5 - I'm the one who asked the question, so I don't have to answer.  Beefy thinks we need something funny instead of just "blog for ol' mizzou", and that's been a struggle.  Anything funny that's also RMN-related, only about 8 people are going to actually get the joke...

ZouDave: 1 - ISU is in a tough situation because they're not showing major improvement now nor are they a traditional or past power. Nebraska and Colorado have a lot of history to fall back on, so their teams get down but people say "Look where they once were, they'll get back there again." KSU was a great program for about 10 years and that wasn't that long ago, so it's not out of the question for them to be good or at least relevant with the right breaks. kansas just had a 12 win season and won a BCS bowl. Mizzou has rattled off 27 wins in the last 3 seasons and is picked as unanimous choice to win the North for the 2nd consecutive year. Where does that leave ISU? Behind the 8-ball. Someone has to be 6th out of 6. Right now KSU and ISU are probably the 'favorites' to be the worst, but KSU has that recent history so ISU is considered the doormat. The only way that changes is if Chizik starts beating teams consistently. Right now they seem to perpetually be 1996 Mizzou, where sure they might beat someone but they're not going to beat everyone.

2 - ISU and Mizzou have played each other very close for the past few years. 2001 was a 6 point game, 2002 was a 7 point game, 2004 and 2005 were both 3 point games in OT, 2006 was a 5 point game, and last year's 14-point game was closer than the score indicates. The most we've won by in Ames recently was in 1998 when we won by 16. So...I'll go with something near that margin (as I feel this year's team will far exceed 1998's talent while ISU is probably about the same more or less) and say Mizzou wins 38-24.

3 - 8/28: South Dakota State - W
9/6: Kent State - W
9/13: @ Iowa - L
9/20: @ UNLV - L
10/4: Kansas - L
10/11: @ Baylor - W
10/18: Nebraska - L
10/25: Texas A&M - W
11/1: @ Oklahoma State - L
11/8: @ Colorado - L
11/15: Missouri - L
11/22: @ Kansas State - L

4-8, but they'll probably be close in 3 or 4 of their losses.

4 - No, but I was once elected Mayor of Grinnell, IA.

5 - Well I gotta go with option 1, don't I?

Doug: 1 - I agree with Seth, Iowa State was pretty much at the top of their game with McCarney, they were, basically, an overtime away from the Big 12 Championship game.  Chizik may do well on the recruiting trail, but the level of competition in the Big 12 North is being ratcheted up and it's not like Iowa is falling apart either.  If Chizik can continual have 7 win seasons and minor bowls then he'll probably be considered a success by Cyclone fans... but then that will beg the question... "Why the hell did they fire McCarney?"

2 - Eh, I'd say you give me too much credit... but what hell, yeah, I would have gotten the prediction right in 2006.  But this year, I'll predict a Missouri win.

3 - What was I say about 7 and 5?  I'm seeing 4 and 8 right now.

4 - Been to Des Moines.  Not Ames.

5 - I was thinking more along the lines of: "Who let the Jayhawk in?"  But, if that's not on the table, I'd vote for the nunchuks.

The Boy: Actually, Iowa really might be close to falling apart.

Doug: Okay, fair enough... I guess it only fair that states like Kansas and Iowa can only really have one team be decent in football at a time.  Tell me again (DON'T TELL ME) why there is no second D-1 football team in Missouri?

ZouDave: Because the only other real option would probably be Missouri State, and their stadium seats like 8,000 people. We've got Northwest Missouri State, though, and their multiple Division II Championships and Championship Game appearances.

Doug: Dammit.... I did not want to start this conversation... but let me clarify.  I was thinking more in terms of the historical reasoning as to why Missouri has only one "major" university when surrounding, less populated states like Kansas, Iowa and Oklahoma State have two.  Meanwhile, states like Illinois and Ohio both have multiple D-1 football programs.

Like I said, I've seen this conversation hashed out a hundred times or more on TB, and really have desire to see it on Rock M.  I was really just making the point about the difficulties of states like Kansas or Iowa trying to support two consistently winning D-1 football programs.

ZouDave: I really don't know that there's a reason, but I also really don't care. We is what we is.

I do wish, though, that UMKC had a football program of some kind. Or maybe even Park University (shameless plug), who is a VERY competitive NAIA Soccer school. Just wish we had some college football options in KC other than William Jewell up in Liberty, which is neither in KC nor is it good football.

Doug: See, now that is surprising to me, that UMKC, even before it was rolled in the Missouri system, did not have a football program, at least that I know of. Of course, now, trying to build a program on an urban, commuter campus, not in a state named Florida, would be next to impossible.

MizzouRobot: 1. I'm not going to withdraw ISU from future shifts of power because people said the same things about us three years ago and are still saying the same thing about us now.  All it takes is one recruit and a good coach, and they've got the coach.  I think his ceiling is a ten win season, but it may be blanketed by 6 win seasons or worse.  It just depends on how patient they are in Ames.

2. 31-24 Mizzou. We're due for a scare game, right?

3. 6-6.

4. Once, for about thirty seconds, picking up a stranded buddy.  Then I ran to beat hell. God, I hate Iowa.


Michael Atchison: I think one reason that Missouri has only one "major" university while smaller neighboring states have more is that Missouri has (perhaps) too many small and mid-sized public universities - UMKC, UMSL, Rolla, NWMSU, Truman State, Missouri State, SEMO, CMSU, Missouri Western, Lincoln University, etc.

ZouDave: (and Park University)

though we are not public.

MizzouRobot: That's what she said.

Doug: THAT's the back of the t-shirt.






An hour later...

The Boy: This roundtable:

ZouDave: It's Iowa State, dude, what do you expect?

Michael Atchison: Though you have to admit, the t-shirt question was riveting.

ZouDave: I think we're just lost that there was actual discussion going on rather than random insults and images.

The Beef: Well….should we get to insulting one another then?

rptgwb: Here's a conversation starter: Who wants to add something about this image that popped across my Facebook news feed?

Michael Atchison: The worst part of this Roundtable is that I'm getting Beef's messages when he sends them. Last week, they all came in a bundle at 8:30 on Friday night when I felt free to ignore them.

How's that?

The Beef: As I have learned...if he can fry it...he's a fan of it.

ZouDave: Coulda been worse.

ZouDave: This is kinda funny.

Take note of what the title of the page is.

MizzouRobot: I didn't know Colt McCoy was in Fall Out Boy...

rptgwb: Speaking of McCoy, how about TexAgs bringing some LOL greatness to the table?