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Rock M Roundtable!

1 - Define "running up the score" for me. Did Mizzou do it last week?

2 - Any surprises in the Big 12 last week that particularly caught your eye?

3 - Three weeks into the season, has your perception of a particular Big 12 team totally changed?

4 - Tell me what you know about the Buffalo Bulls (that's Bulls, not Bills), and give me a reason to be concerned.

5 - Big 12 picks!

Kansas State at Louisville (tonight)
West Virginia at Colorado (tomorrow)
Baylor at UConn (Friday)
Miami-FL at Texas A&M
Iowa State at UNLV
Rice at Texas
Sam Houston at Kansas
UMass at Texas Tech

rptgwb - 1. I don't think there's a black-and-white answer for "running up the score." It's like the Supreme Court on obscenity: "I know it when I see it." I assume that the real question within the question here is "Do you think Pinkel ran up the score last week." I don't know. I don't think there was much he could do about the Patton and Gettys touchdowns, but I do think the fake FG was a bit gratuitous.

2. I know they haven't played anybody, but Oklahoma State is starting to catch my attention. How much love would that offense be getting if they played in ANY other conference? Staying in the same state, this just in: Oklahoma is really, really, really good.

3. I wasn't expecting Texas A&M to struggle this badly, I wasn't expecting OSU to be this explosive, I wasn't expecting Kansas to have no running game.

4. Drew Willy threw a hail mary to beat Temple and he and the Bulls are coached by Turner Gill. That's what I've got. Why should we be worried? Because every moment players are on the field is another moment they are exposed to injury.

5. Picks:

KSU over Louisville by 7
West Virginia over Colorado by 8
UConn over Baylor by 4 (I almost went with the upset here)
Miami over Texas A&M by 13
UNLV over Iowa State by 3
Texas over Rice by 31
Kansas over Sam Houston by 35
Texas Tech over UMass by 45

The Beef - 1 - Eh….we probably ran the score up a bit on Nevada last week, though the INT for a TD gets a pass certainly. The fake FG, while I have no problem with it at all, does not look great to some folks. Personally, I do not care. I saw us lose 62-7 at Clemson and I know others witnessed the 66-0 game. We are out on parole for time served at this point. I am pleased to see Patton getting one drive and the rest going to Gabbert at this point. I expect to see the same this coming weekend.

2 - I think Okie State’s running game is a surprise to me, but it is easy to be surprised when you don’t know/pay much attention to begin with. Other than that, I think everyone else is about where I figured they might be, though this weekend will start to tell a little more with CU and kSU at least.

3 - I know kU lost their defensive coordinator in the off-season as well as RB and a couple off of the line, but I really did think they would be more easily replaced than they have been. Plenty of time for kU to right the ship, just the schedule does not help them much at all. I guess my perception of Mizzou has changed as well…since I really did not believe the offense could be better than it was last year.

4 - I know Turner Gill is the coach and I know they won on a hail mary last weekend. Other than that…the only reason I could see to be concerned is if the B-2 shows back up having been outfitted with a way to go back in time and the 4 Super Bowl version of the Buffalo Bills gets off of the plane.

5 - Kansas State at Louisville (tonight) – wow…I refuse to believe L’ville has fallen off as much as they seem to have…and I just don’t have faith in kSU at this point to go on the road and win, so I will pick L’ville by a TD in what is probably a bit of an upset

West Virginia at Colorado (tomorrow) – Will be interesting to see which WVU team shows up…I think the better one does, and beats CU by a couple of TD’s

Baylor at UConn (Friday) – Mush you Huskies…and they will

Miami-FL at Texas A&M – Quite a game…what..10 years ago? 5 years ago even? Now…ugh…can I pick a CFL-style 1-0 score? I think Miami goes in there and wins by the way

Iowa State at UNLV – UNLV by 10 points

Rice at Texas – Texas by 24

Sam Houston at Kansas – Kansas by…well…a lot

UMass at Texas Tech – Tech by…well…more

The Beef - Seriously...two people into this and that's all anyone knows on Buffalo?

rptgwb - Umm... they gave Wolf Blitzer a degree. Does that count? And, more importantly, can the Mizzou pass defense cover him?

Doug - 1 - I don't think there is such a thing as "running up the score". Pretty much all coaches will tell you, it's their job to stop the team from scoring! Now, how you score is entirely different. If you're in the 4th quarter and still slinging the ball around the field, there's something a little weird about that than rather just running the ball. If the other team can't stop you from gaining 300 yards on the ground (professional or otherwise), they really have no place to gripe.

2 - Iowa 17, ISU 5. I guess the Hawkeyes aren't quite ready to pack it in yet. That or Kirk Ferentz is saying to his coaching staff, "Gentlemen, we must protect our phony-baloney jobs!"

3 - Not really. I knew the running game for KU was going to be a question mark, and given this weekend's match-up, I wouldn't be surprised if Kansas runs the ball 75% of the time to work on blocking schemes and to get the offensive line and running backs ready for the start of conference play.

4 - The head coach is Turner Gill? I'm sure he had MU's number back when he was playing for Nebraska, right?

5 - Louisville - weird night, toughest opponent thus far, and K-State's first road game
West Virginia - I worry about Dan Hawkins' health.
UConn - I get this funny feeling the last week of non-con is not going to be nice to the Big 12
Texas A&M - And I though Hurricanes were suppose to be forces of nature
UNLV - If you have time for football... you have time for blackjack.
Texas - The Texans moving in to Rice's stadium rub off on the Owls
Kansas - Like I said, 40+ running plays, tell your friends
Texas Tech - UMass has a football team? Seriously?

The Beef - Actually…in Gill’s three years, the worst Mizzou lost to those NU teams (for SOME strange reason) was by only 21 points…the other two were decently close…making no sense at all

Doug - Well, that's basically the history of MU athletics right there: "We didn't lose as badly as we thought we would."

The Beef - Speaks highly for all those better kU teams in hoops then back in the 90’s, doesn’t it?

Doug - You gotta get for a game every once and a while.

Oh, and I think Buffalo is playing this entire season dedicated to Tim Russert.

Too soon?

Michael Atchison - 1 - The fake field goal may have been a bit much, but the margin wasn’t completely out of hand yet (Mizzou was up four touchdowns with a quarter-and-a-half to play). I think there was an effort to put the game away and to erase any chance of losing, but I don’t think there was any effort to humiliate Nevada. Pinkel tried to call the dogs off in the fourth quarter, but when the punter fumbles a snap and their quarterback hits a reserve linebacker in the chest with a pass, what are you going to do? Stop playing football?

2 - The margin by which Baylor hammered Washington State was certainly unexpected. Sounds like the kid quarterback has some wheels. I also thought Iowa State would put up more of a fight against Iowa. That’s usually a "throw the records out" kind of game.

3 - I think the Big 12 has played according to form about as much as you could ever expect. Now if you want to talk about the Big 10 and the Pac 10 . . . .

4 - I know that Turner Gill is Buffalo’s coach and that the Bulls have acquitted themselves as a legit Division One football team through three games, but I can’t possibly give you a real reason to be concerned. These Tigers are dialed in right now.

5 - Cats by six over Louisville.
West Virginia by three over Colorado.
UConn by 14 over Baylor
A&M by one over Miami.
UNLV by four over Iowa State.
Texas by 28 over Rice.
Kansas by 27 over SHSU.
Tech by 45 over UMass.

The Boy - Gill's time was a smidge before Mizzou's complete and utter collapse. Still, though, the fact that we lost by less than a TD twice while he was behind center is a little disorienting.

And actually, the history of MU athletics would actually be "We didn't lose as badly as we thought we would...except for when we did." Oops, I mean SCREW YOU, BEAKER. COREY TATE LIVES!!!! SOD REESING!!!

1 - As I said in our podcast the other day, I know Pinkel gets an allergic reaction to running up the score, so I automatically assumed that the fake FG wasn't running up the score. And while I'm sure I'd have a problem with it if I were a fan of the victimized school...well...I was a fan of the victimized school for a long time, so I don't have that much of a problem with it. As for what actually constitutes "running up the score" rpt said, I know it when I see it. If you have the backups in and you're running normal plays from the playbook, I see no problem.

2 - I expected Baylor to beat Wazzu, but not by 20+. And honestly, I thought it would be Matt Grothe who blinked in the KU-USF game, not Todd Reesing.

3 - I still don't expect much from Baylor this year, but it was nice to see that Robert Griffin's not only not a disaster, but a competent least against teams who don't know how to defend a rushing QB. I think you at least have to show up to beat Baylor this year, and that's a change from '07. As for the rest...NU, OSU and KSU have done about what I expected so far. CU and ATM, however, need to show me something this weekend--they don't appear to be as far along as I expected. But they both have an opportunity to catch up this weekend against WV and Miami, respectively. And I thought KU might see a dropoff in the running game, but what I've seen was worse than I thought.

And yes...I too was a little taken aback by the improvements to Mizzou's offense.

4 - Their QB (Drew Willy) can throw pretty well, and they've got a couple solid receivers. Technically if we turn the ball over early or have a big defensive breakdown, they can make it a game for a bit.

5 - Alright, here we go...I'm in a pro-Big 12 mood right now...

Kansas State at Louisville - We know nothing about KSU yet because of the competition they've faced, but I think I know something about Louisville, and what I know is that they're not very good. They don't have the offensive firepower they used to, and this matchup sets up pretty well for KSU. Of course, I wouldn't be shocked if they lay a complete and total egg, but like I said...I'm in a pro-Big 12 mood...KSU 31, Louisville 23.

West Virginia at Colorado - I'm really down on WV, and CU's had over a week to think about their craptastic game against Eastern Washington. WV's defense lost pretty much everybody good from last year, and the new WV coach appears close to making a "Brad Smith in 2004" error with Pat know, the "Let's make him a good passer too!" error. I think this game has big upset potential...but I can't quite pull the trigger. West Virginia 28, Colorado 27.

Oh, screw it. Colorado 31, West Virginia 28.

Baylor at UConn - If UConn's defense were a smidge worse, I'd soooooo pick Baylor here. I think BU's competitive enough not to completely fold here, but...they're just not yet to the point where I could pick them to win a road game against a decent BCS-conference team. If they were playing Syracuse or something, it would be a different story. UConn 34, Baylor 24.

Miami-FL at Texas A&M - Show me something, ATM. Score on Miami's young defense. Obliterate Miami's young QBs. But until you actually do it...Miami 21, Texas A&M 17.

Iowa State at UNLV - UNLV screams "LETDOWN!!" right now after beating Arizona State. If Iowa State had any semblance of a running game, I'd feel comfortable picking them. But they don't. UNLV's not as good as they showed last week, but I'm just not quite confident enough in ISU yet.

Oh, screw it. Iowa State 28, UNLV 20.

Rice at Texas - Rice can put up some points. Just not nearly enough. I think Texas might actually be in that "Top Tier" of teams. Texas 52, Rice 21.

Sam Houston at Kansas - If KU can't get a running game going this week, yikes. KU 56, SHSU 6.

UMass at Texas Tech - Whatever. Tech 62, UMass 13.

ZouDave - 1 - Mizzou did a bit of it last week, yes, but only with the fake field goal. I don't think you get into "running up the score" zone until after you've refused to pull your starters at a certain point in the game. Well, we pulled Daniel in the 3rd quarter and then started pulling the other starters gradually from there, and we kept scoring. Sorry, that's just not our fault. We're better than you, by a lot, and we can't tell our guys to simply stop scoring. The fake FG, though, was a bit out of character for this team and coaching staff. My understanding is that it was called and wasn't expected to go 32 yards for a TD, so if that's true it makes more sense and just shows what kind of day we were having.

2 - Honestly, I'm surprised South Florida beat kansas. I expected kansas to win that game by 10, and when they were up 20-3 in the 2nd quarter I thought I had underestimated ku. Very surprised they lost. Other than that, I'm surprised Baylor handled Wazzu so easily, but I guess I didn't realize how truly awful Wazzu is.

3 - Well I've only gotten a couple of my picks wrong so far (and one was a wing and a prayer pick just to be different when I picked Washington to upset Oklahoma......I was close!) Other than kansas, who I'm shocked about the lack of running game and am surprised a defense so highly touted surrendered 37 points, I think my perception has changed the most about Baylor. They've found themselves a Brad Smith, and that can win you games. They may go 5-7 this year and teams may have to look out for them next year. Thankfully we get Baylor in Columbia next year.

4 - I know they've only been D1 for a few years (since 1999), and apparently they're the only D1 team that has a black AD, head football coach and head basketball coach. Go, go, Buffalo.


5 - KSU over Louisville by 13
Colorado over West Virginia by 3
UConn over Baylor by 3
Miami over aTm by 10
UNLV over Iowa State by 7
Texas over Rice by 24
kansas over Sam Houston St by 48
Texas Tech over UMass by 48

Oh forgot about the reason to be worried about Buffalo....



our players might get locked in the locker room at halftime and not be able to properly defend their 24 point lead?


ZouDave - Did I break it?

The Beef - Don’t you usually?

I think The Boy is in meetings most of the day…and I lord only knows where Ridiculous Matt might be hanging out these days

Ridiculous Matt - 1. I think we did, but it's a reaction to the atmosphere of college football. You don't see Oklahoma calling off the dogs, do you? In order to make an impact in the rankings, you need to leave absolutely no doubt, otherwise a team that played a tougher opponent might jump you. Was the fake necessary? No. So it was running up the score a little bit, but I think this team would do well to have as much swagger as it can get.

2. Oklahoma State's continued fireworks show. That game is becoming more and more of one to circle with each week.

3. I didn't expect Nebraska's offense to be that good, I didn't expect Texas' defense to be as bad as it is, and I didn't expect our defense to be as shakey as it is. Back to bend, don't break!

4. They're close to Canada, and therefore have disorienting flapping heads and beady eyes.

5. KState 42 Louisville 24
Colorado 21 WVU 17
Baylor 35 UConn 30
Miami-FL 24 A&M 13
ISU 13 UNLV 10
Texas 52 Rice 17
Kansas 38 Sam Houston 7
Tech 45 UMass 17


ZouDave - We are the opposite of Mizzou's offense with roundtables lately. Just nothing going on, no excitement, no points being made, and certainly no golden girls celebrating our successes.

Michael Atchison - I’ve been doing a pushup for each roundtable response.

ZouDave - well at this rate, you'll have bigger arms in like 10 weeks.

The Beef - Dude…you must be huge…


Ridiculous Matt - At what point can we start looking ahead to Nebraska?

ZouDave - about the 12:02 mark of the 1st quarter this past Saturday...

The Beef - Pretty sure as soon as The Boy posts this?

ZouDave - The Washington Post says we're in danger:

"One under-the-radar game to watch out for will be Buffalo at No. 5 Missouri. Yes, Chase Daniel threw for 405 yards and four touchdowns to rout Nevada, and yes, the Tigers have one of the most dynamic offenses in the country, but don't be surprised if Turner Gill's Bulls give the home team more than it bargained for."

Where do they get this stuff? Did they just randomly look at the schedule of Top 25 teams and pick a game to say this about? What on earth about this matchup says anything but ass raping? Does Buffalo stop the pass well? No as a matter of fact, they don't. Their opponents are getting 241.7 per game through the air so far, and 7 yards per attempt. Those are not numbers of a good pass defense. By contrast, Missouri's defense is giving up more passing yards per game but less yards per attempt. Our pass defense has been described as not that good, and it's probably played better than Buffalo's. Buffalo is also averaging an adorable 29.3 ppg so far this year. We're almost doubling that.

Seriously, this is a bloodletting waiting to happen. Missouri wins in style, 58-17.

Michael Atchison - Sounds familiar:

Nevada at No. 6 Missouri

With a full Big 12 schedule rapidly approaching, this could be a trap game for Missouri. We know Chase Daniel will show up for the Tigers. But will the D?

Matt - Did anyone else notice we had a lot more success back in the bend-don't-break pass defense? As long as we're not gambling with our secondary, our front seven is good enough to shut down the run and contain anything short.

ZouDave - and once Van Alexander is back on the field, that's probably exactly what we're going to see more of.

In fact I bet we'll see a lot of it this week without Willy Mo out there (and presumably more of Alexander).

Michael Atchison - I agree about sitting in a standard defense. They’ve gotten scorched when they’ve gambled. Inevitably, when they bring a blitz, the opponents are going right to the spot that has been vacated.

Different issue: Was anyone else as impressed with Kaepernick’s play fakes as I was? I lost count of how many times I bit on the fake while the ball went elsewhere.

The Beef - Oh god yes on Kaepernick’s play-fakes…I watched a little of the replay…the camera NEVER knew where the ball was going on most of that drive

ZouDave - Yeah, that was insane. I believe the guys covered that in the podcast as well, but it was crazy how often I was starting to cheer that we stopped their RB short only to see Kaepernick out on the edge, as Barking Carnival put it, skipping to his lou.

here's the link to that, if you haven't seen it.

The Beef - Wow…some great lines in there…well done by those guys.

And as it pertains to the actual football-related stuff in there…I agree and I believe we will see Moore blitzing a lot less. Like The Boy mentions…we kind of run a box and one on defense…10 guys doing what they are supposed to and Moore getting around the field doing whatever he wants. I think we will see him slowly reigned back into the secondary since that is where he ruled the field last year in the 2nd half.

ZouDave - Yeah, you have to respect the line "The dude has the ball hiding skills of Rupaul." That's brilliant.


The Beef - Damn….was hoping you would gloss over that and not choose to do what you just did

ZouDave - not today, man...not today.

Besides, there's a very strong chance Atchison has no idea who Rupaul is. He might think she's hot. *snicker*

Michael Atchison - I’m hip to all the transvestite/transgender one-hit wonders and talk-show hosts. Work it!

The Beef - Speaks volumes that he knows who Rupaul is, but not Jenna Haze (gotta keep the hits up with mentioning her name)

Michael Atchison - Mind you, Rupaul became famous before I had kids, Ms. Haze (apparently) after. Really, until you’re mired in the life, you won’t understand that you’ll go a few years not understanding any cultural reference that doesn’t come from the Disney Channel.

Doug - He has Rupaul on his iPod, now he's just waiting on Jenna Haze to put out a single.

The Beef - Doesn’t Jenna usually do at LEAST doubles? Even triples or more?

ZouDave - How does Rupaul's ball hiding skills match up with Jenna Haze's fruit hiding skills? THAT'S a roundtable topic!

The Beef - Atch is doing push-ups like a mo-fo right now.

ZouDave - I should not have doubted your knowledge of transgendertites. Sashe, Chante!

On to a far less disturbing topic, the Buffalo fans seem almost in awe of our team. This is a weird feeling, hearing others talk about our team this way.

The Beef - This guy seems a little on edge about this, but I did not know this…nor I do believe ANYONE else did either


As my buddy at work just said… "taking liberties with prepositions I see"

ZouDave - Yeah, why aren't they "The University IN Buffalo"?

One of us should jump in there and all caps someone to death because they had the nerve to type Daniels. IT'S CHASE FREAKING DANIEL! GAH! SHOW RESPECT AT US!

Michael Atchison - We should have a Rock M preposition contest, in which we link "University" and "Buffalo" with the most inspiring preposition.

The University despite Buffalo

The University within Buffalo

The University unlike Buffalo

The University beneath Buffalo

ZouDave - The University during Buffalo?

Ridiculous Matt - I now want (another) shirt that says "Mizzou: Respect AT Us!"

The Beef - I smell a poll for the end of the Roundtable!!

ZouDave - The University throughout Buffalo

ZouDave -

Doug - Wait until that guy reads "Rock M Nation - The Short Bus of Sports Blogs!"


ZouDave - I killed it again.

Check this out:

TIGER FACT-OF-THE-GAME •62 times in MU’s 117 years of football, the Tigers have failed to score as many points in the season as Mizzou has scored in 3 games so far in 2008 (173 pts.). The last time was 1989, when MU tallied 171 pts. in 11 games.


The Beef - Ggh…we outscored over half our seasons in three weeks…oy

rptgwb - My student email account just imploded.

ZouDave - For some reason I'm not seeing any of Doug's emails. I just see his responses when someone else responds to it.

Doug, what did you do to piss off my spam filter? I see Bill's emails just fine, but not yours.

Michael Atchison - This message has been processed by Symantec's AntiVirus Technology. was not scanned for viruses because too many nested levels of files were found.

For more information on antivirus tips and technology, visit

The Beef - Oh god...then I got this from Atch...I think we hit our limit

Doug - You think we're having problems?

Just wait until Bill tries to decipher all of this for tonight's posting.

The Boy - Yeah, uhh. Sigh. I should have this copy-pasted by 10pm.

Michael Atchison - I’m guessing that I’m the only one here who was a season-ticket holder in 1989, and, yes, it was as painful as you’d imagine.

Which is all the more reason to say to eat this success up while it happens, because you don’t know how long it will last.

ZouDave - I turned 13 just before the 1989 season began. I started playing football that year, and my team (the Seahawks) went a wonderful 1-9 on the season with our only victory coming in week 2 over the Broncos, 10-7. The Broncos would later beat us in the return trip, making us co-last place according to beaker rules.

I vaguely remember listening to many of those Mizzou games in 1989, because I had taken on such a huge interest in football. I don't remember it being very fun to listen to. Then on Sundays I got to watch Steve DeBerg play-action pass and Christian Okoye run up the middle to get the Chiefs to 8-7-1 in the first year under Schottenheimer (yes, that was the year Okoye led the league in rushing). That was also Derrick Thomas' rookie year when he had 10 sacks. Sundays were a lot more fun than Saturdays. However, even the Chiefs, in 16 games, only scored 318 points in 1989. I'm willing to bet Mizzou tops 318 before the end of October.

ZouDave - As a side note, 3 years ago today Beef had to leave Wichita, ks, on a moment's notice to drive 5 hours back to Columbia to fire a kid working for him in one of the Res Halls. That's another way of me saying I got married 3 years ago today. Also 3 years ago today we got revenge against Troy, but thanks to me there are 3 members of this Roundtable that didn't get to see the game. I rule.

The Beef - Good lord…three years ago already? Christ….

And the drive took just over four hours….one of my more reckless outings…worst firing ever….I drank hard that evening when that was done

ZouDave - Would've been a lot more fun for you to drink hard that evening on my dad's nickel, like the rest of the wedding party did.

The Beef - This is true…instead…I drank hard on confiscated booze…so at least it was someone else’s nickel as well

The Boy - Ahh, yes...the confiscated booze trick...

"I'm confiscating this."
"Aren't you supposed to empty this out in front of me or something?"
"No, don't worry about that. I'll take care of it."

rptgwb - You think the MUPD partied that hard on confiscated booze after "15-minute Frat Pit 2008" on SEMO weekend?

The Boy - Depends on how well MUPD likes Natty Light, I guess.

The Beef - It is entirely possible...I know the room where that stuff goes...

Doug - You're complaining about having to leave Wichita?

The Beef - I had my staff trained well…they were to have the STUDENT empty the beer….VERY slowly…one at a time…(unless they recognized the beer as being something better than Natty Light) and any hard alcohol they simply confiscated and placed in my office where I would take care of its removal…right over to my apartment across the hall which oddly enough I COULD have booze in

ZouDave - Anybody else keep opening that image attachment (attached to each progressive e-mail) thinking it's something else, only to see Rupaul?

The Boy - "Thinking it's something else"...yeah right, Dave.

ZouDave -