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Rock M Roundtable!

1 - When 2008 began, pretty much all non-Mizzou fans were getting pretty sick of Chase Daniel.  On a 1-10 scale, how much more tired of Tim Tebow will everybody in the country (outside of Gainesville) be when 2009 kicks off?

2 - Give me your best bet for how the prognosticators will predict the North (in football) for 2009.

3 - So...what can Mizzou legitimately expect from Leo Lyons the rest of the season (assuming he's only suspended for the Colorado game)?

4 - Again assuming that Lyons only misses one game, what are the chances of Missouri making the NCAA tournament now?

5 - I'm not going to touch the Miguel/Chris Paul thing, so instead I'll just switch back to football and ask who's going to win the Super Bowl this year.

Michael Atchison: 1 - I struggled mightily with calculus and the like.  However much it is, it’s exponentially higher than Chase.  There is a chance, however, that Tebow could shed his corporeal form before next season and ascend to the heavens.

2 - Everyone will pick Kansas to win it.  This is how the preseason slating will look:

   1. Kansas
   2. Nebraska
   3. Missouri
   4. Colorado
   5. Kansas State
   6. Iowa State

3 - You can expect from Leo what you always expect from Leo – moments of transcendence tempered by long stretches of lethargy.

4 - The loss at Nebraska was a real blow.  It can be overcome, but in and of itself it was a blow to the Tigers’ tourney chances (I don’t think they’ll have much margin for error; that was a game they needed).  I’ll put it at 51%, and I think that may be optimistic.

5 - First off, I think Miguel is actually related to old-school hip hopper Prince Paul.  Whoever wins the AFC is going to win it, and I’m going to guess that it’s Pittsburgh, though I don’t remember it ever being quite so wide-open at this stage.

The Beef: 1 - Science has yet to invent that number….but Thom Brenneman would tell you that if anyone could invent that number, it would be Tim Tebow.

2 - The REALLY broad ones will put kU first I believe, and I could see them putting NU second, with us 3rd, then probably kSU because of Snyder, then CU and ISU to round it out.  The ones who look at it a little deeper keep kansas in front, but probably put us over NU and MIGHT put CU in front kSU in 4th.

3 - I expect there will be a time when we all believe that Leo has put this behind him and is back to playing like one of the best in the conference.  Then, he will revert back at the most important time and crush our hopes and dreams.

4 - I need to see us go back on the road in the conference before I make the prediction.  I refuse believe NU is some sort of juggernaut, but Anderson just struggles against Doc, so who knows.  But, the road is certainly tougher than it looked last Saturday, as you can ill-afford many/any other slip-ups right now until you knock off a couple of folks.

5 - Not touching it would have meant not actually mentioning it….the Eagles will win the Super Bowl this season

Doug: 1 - Well, I think you overstate who was sick of Chase Daniel.  I think it was pretty much everybody in the Big 12, but the rest of the country didn't really care.  Now... everyone is sick of Tebow already.  And, that is just going to grow as we get into next season.  So, right now it's an 8.  At the start of the 2009 season, it'll be a 12 and by the end of the season, it'll be a 127.

2 - The prognosticators will probably make it a NU-KU race at the start of the season.  KU will have a bit of an advantage, with Nebraska having to come to Lawrence, but the Jayhawks, I think, will still have to get one win against the South teams to make sure they can win.

3 - Look at it this way... lack of insurance and driving with your lights off is at least far less severe than what happened at the Apollo Club, right?  Honestly, Atch has a point, Lyons' career at MU will seemingly always be plauged by long stretches of "What the hell is he doing?" with bright flashes of, "How the hell did he do that?"

4 - The Big 12 North is ripe for the taking.  Losing to Nebraska (albeit on the road) a team that doesn't have a guy taller than 6-5 playing real minutes is a big blow.

5 - It'll be an all Pennsylvania Super Bowl and I'll pick Pittsburgh, just because they've got the strongest combination of defense and offense.

The Beef: Really?  The Apollo Club?  The one guy on this who was going to get carte blanche to rail our guy and you cannot even get the name of the place right?

Doug: Just goes to show how I little care I actually have for railing on anybody.

Oh, and how little research I do for the Round Tables.

The Boy: 1 - I did read quite a few anti-Daniel sentiments on national sites, but yeah...I'm sure it was mostly limited to the Big 12.  Either way, the answer in regard to Tebow is clearly...eleventy billion.

2 - Because I have so little faith in prognosticators to think and analyze, I'll say half of them pick Nebraska #1 over Kansas because "NEBRASKA'S BACK!!11!!!!11!!!", and half of them pick Colorado ahead of Mizzou because they're going to keep riding the Dan Hawkins train until it pays off.  I'm pretty sure about the former, and I virtually guarantee the latter.  And honestly, I encourage the latter, as it's been a while since Mizzou could get a good "nobody respects us" lather going.

3 - As an optimist, I'd say that Leo can start playing well now that he's gotten his annual suspension out of the way.  And while it might seem excessive to some to suspend a guy for basically a traffic violation, I don't blame Anderson for it since a) it's far from his first strike, and b) it's been made very clear that light kicks in the ass do nothing for Leo--it has to be a pretty strong blow.

4 - Last week I made an allowance for one road slip-up to either NU, ISU or CU...and seeing the Sadler vs Anderson track record, I guess losing to NU was the most likely.  That said, it makes all the other halfway-gimme games way more important now.  Of course, with Lyons and Miguel Paul, we're rounding nicely into Stupid Season for Mizzou Basketball (it's as reliable as a holiday at this point), so we'll have to see the damage that is inflicted by all this crap.  But since Atch said 51% and I'm a great Price Is Right player, I'll give the only reasonable option: 52%.  ONE DOLLAR, BOB!!

5 - I couldn't be more excited about the AFC Championship Game and less excited about the NFC Championship Game.  I've always been a big underdog fan, so I guess the Cardinals' run has appealed to me in that regard, but...the Cardinals in the Super Bowl?  Really?  I can't even fathom that.  But since pretty much every single national writer (including the egregious Gene Wojciechowski at ESPN...and no, I didn't take the time to figure out how to spell his name correctly) has completely written Arizona off even though they're at home and Philly has had no rushing offense, I assume Arizona will win, then bow out politely to the Baltimore-Pittsburgh winner...and I'll say that's Baltimore just to be different.  Ahh, a Baltimore-Arizona Super Bowl...just what the NFL was looking for...

Doug: Yes, with the entire state of Arizona saying, "Super Bowl? Didn't we have a "Super Bowl" here, not too long ago? What are the chances they would have another one? Is it just as Super?"

ZouDave: 1 - Tebow is going to get 10x the coverage Chase Daniel did, because he already has.  He's already won the Heisman, he's led his team to a National Title (and played a significant role in a previous one 2 years ago), and then there's the whole walking on water thing.  He will be a galvanizing force in college football next year, because people will basically be forced to love him or hate him.  It will be interesting to see how the other SEC fans treat him in conversations outside of just the normal Florida vs whoever.  If even like Vanderbilt fans are trashing him on the national stage, we'll have found something that can crack the unity of the might SEC!  SEC!  SEC!
2 - I think it's going to be a split between kansas and Nebraska, and I even think some publications will go so far as to declare Mizzou's funeral.  To me, kansas is the smarter pick as far as merit goes.  They're returning the best and most experienced QB in the North, and really 2nd or at worst 3rd best QB in the conference, along with scary and productive receivers in Briscoe and Meier.  Jake Sharp is an explosive and experienced runner, dangerous also catching the ball.  Hard to pick against them.  But the lovefest with Nebraska often makes little sense, so I just simply won't be surprised if up to half of the experts go ahead and declare Nebraska back simply because they want them to be.  There's still this sense among many talking heads that college football needs Nebraska to be good for the game to be interesting.  Simple fact, that just isn't the case.
So I think it WILL be predicted thusly:
1a - kansas
1b - Nebraska
3 - Missouri
4 - Kansas State
5 - Colorado
6 - Iowa State
3 - More of the same.  I think we can expect inconsistent play, pairing 28 point nights with 9 point nights and spotty effort all the way around.  Very rarely do people make rapid changes.
4 - Certainly worse than before, but because of said inconsistent play we're probably going to steal one someone didn't expect us to.  It's still quite possible 9-7 in the conference is enough to get us in, and any better than that almost certainly will.
5 - Philadelphia.  I answered that without thinking at all, so I can't back it up in any meaningful way.  GO HANK BASKETT!

The Beef: I say Go Hank Baskett’s fiancé….

ZouDave: I can't argue with that.

rptgwb: 1. What's sad is that even some Mizzou fans were getting sick of Chase Daniel. I don't know if I see that happening in Gainesville. I still haven't hit the point where I hate Tebow, despite all of the media fawning. I guess it's only a matter of time though.

2. I think the top three could be interesting, with Kansas, Nebraska, and Mizzou all getting shuffled to different spots in the top 3. My best guess?
       - Kansas
       - Missouri
       - Nebraska
       - Colorado
       - Kansas State
       - Iowa State

3. I still think Good Leo will show up every three or four games. But if we were hoping for Leo to come of age and mature into the leader we all wanted him to be, it's looking more and more likely that such aspirations were only a dream.

4. Before the Nebraska game, I would have said 75 percent. Now, I think it's down to 49 or so (how's that for "ONE DOLLAR BOB!" for you?) . That was one of the games they really couldn't afford to lose.

5. As long as it's not the Eagles, I don't care.

The Boy: Well, if you still haven't found the Tebow hate after "Spend 15 minutes with him, and you'll become a better person," then you might be in the clear.  That seemed to be most people's breaking point...

Michael Atchison: Which is less likely? Tebow NOT winning the 2009 Heisman? Or Jack Bauer NOT surviving the current season of 24?

The Beef: I think Bauer survives and Tebow wins the Heisman…so…yeah…there’s your answer.

ZouDave: You never know with the Heisman.  People sure thought Tebow would repeat this year, but he couldn't hold off the Big 12's QBs.  Colt McCoy is back next year as well, and Texas should be pretty heavily favored to win the Big 12 next season which gives him a big boost as well.  Plus it's been awhile for USC, so they will probably get involved in the Heisman race.  And then there's Terrelle Pryor up at Ohio State, who will be among the most hyped players in the nation coming into the 2009 season.

Tebow will be the early favorite, but it won't be overwhelmingly so.  And in the SEC, anything can happen.  And it usually happens really fast, because of that SSSSSSS EEEEEEEEEE CCCCCCCCCCCCCC SPEED!

Michael Atchison: I think Tebow gets it next year as a coronation. It’ll be a lifetime achievement award.

The Beef: That was my thought...

The Boy: Yeah, I think they've already painted the second portrait to be hung...

Doug: Only this one will have the halo.

ZouDave: So tomorrow I'm heading to Springfield, MO, for the Bass Pro Shops Tournament of Champions high school basketball tournament.  Dad and I go to this every year (he's been going for YEARS, and I've started going with him in the past few years).
Anywho...there's always opportunity to see some really, really good players down there.  We didn't get to go last year because of a funeral, but 2 years ago we got to watch Duke's Kyle Singler as well as Florida's Nick Calathes and Chandler Parsons (among others) before the city was decimated by an ice storm that basically shut the city down for about 2 weeks.  In 2006 we saw Michigan's Ekpe Udoh, Oklahoma State's Obi Muonelo, Alabama's Demetrius Jemison, Oregon State's Lathan Wallace, UConn's Stanley Robinson and Kentucky's Perry Stevenson.  NUMEROUS lower D1 players as well most years, from places like Lehigh, Drexel, Central Arkansas, even Missouri State (yes, that was a shot at Missouri State).
My dad was there to see Teddy Dupay light it up for 58 against Bolivar in 1998 on 13 of 26 3PA, Tyler Hansbrough go for 44 against St. Raymond's in 2005, Todd Day hit for 41 in 1988 against Parkview, Anthony Peeler's 36 against Cathedral Prep in 1988, and Wayne Simien for 33 against Mexico in 2001.  NBA players Alonzo Mourning, Allen Watson, Todd Day, Anthony Peeler, Jevon Crudup, Khalid Reeves, Derrick Phelps, Fred Burley, Terence Rencher, Orlando Antigua, Erick Dampier, Cedric Henderson, Troy Hudson, Ryan Robertson, Loren Woods, Chris Carrawell, Jake Voshkuhl, Lamar Odom, Craig Claxton, Eric Barkley, Larry Hughes, Omar Cook, Ebi Ndudi, Ernest Brown, Wayne Simien and Julius Hodge have graced this tournament in the past 20 years.
This year's field appears to be one of the most talented in recent memory.  Of the 8 teams, here are the kids that will be playing D1 ball:
2-star PG Tyreak Johnson from St. Raymonds in Bronx, NY.
3-star SF Ferrakohn Hall from White Station in Memphis, TN. (apparently has Missouri interest)
5-star PG Joe Jackson from Whtie Station in Memphis, TN. (junior)
3-star CJ Leslie from Word of God Christian Academy in Raleigh, NC (signed with NC State)
5-star PG John Wall from Word of God Christian Academy in Raleigh, NC (#1 player in 2009 according to
Soph PG Bishop Daniels from Word of God Christian Academy in Raleigh, NC (offers already from Wake Forest, Memphis and NC State)
Soph SF Dezmine Wells from Word of God Christian Academy in Raleigh, NC (offer from East Carolina)
3-star PF Kadeem Batts from McEachern in Powder Springs, GA (signed with Providence)
Twins Collin and Charlie Reddick (6'8" and 6'4", but they're twins) from McEachern in Powder Springs, GA (both signed with Furman)
4-star PG Trae Golden from McEachern in Powder Springs, GA (junior, offers from Florida, Georgia, Georgia Tech and Marquette)
3-star SG Dexter Fields from Olympia in Orlando, FL (signed with UAB)
3-star PF William Green from Olympia in Orlando, FL (signed with Western Kentucky)
2-star PG Matell Buie from Olympia in Orlando, FL.
2-star SF Jamel Marshall from Olympia in Orlando, FL (signed with Florida International)
That is just a TON of D1 talent among 40 starters in this field.  There's 3 schools from Missouri in this tournament and not a single player from any of the 3 schools is (currently) projected to be a D1 player.  I'm sure one of them will end up at Missouri State, as they usually do, but the other 5 teams basically average 3 kids in their starting 5 that will play at the next level.  I'm really looking forward to seeing John Wall play, and I'm hopeful he doesn't accept the offer he has from kansas.
I wish one of the Missouri high schools was going to be Lee's Summit West so I could see Dixon against this other talent.  Would have been a lot of fun to compare him on the floor against his future peers.

The Boy: Teddy, that's a blast from the past...

Michael Atchison: Dave has clearly found his inner basketball jones.

Sent from my iPhone


This kid is supposed to be the next dominant player in the NBA. They're talking about him the way they talked about LeBron and Melo at his age.

The Boy: And isn't he supposedly considering, like, Baylor?

ZouDave: All it takes is football season ending (college football, anyway).
It's a great tournament to watch.  Every team plays a game every day, as they have a loser's bracket and then have a consolation game after that so only 1 team goes 0-3.  You get about 6 hours+ of basketball each day and it's like $12/day for the tickets.  Really can't beat that.  And I think this year we'll be in the new arena down there at Missouri State, which should be cool.

The Beef: Here’s my question…shouldn’t they change the name of his high school to Word of Tebow Christian Academy?

(Four hours later...)

ZouDave: Ha, I just got this message you sent 4 hours ago.
Yep, get to see Wall.  I'm really, REALLY, looking forward to it.  And since I'll be in Springfield for a few days, that means before the games start each day I'll be bored.  So, if I get an opportunity, I'll post my thoughts about the games I've seen on RockM just for giggles.

Also: Wall is currently sporting offers (according to Rivals) from Baylor, kansas, Memphis, NC State, Oregon and Miami.  Would have to think there's more than that.

The Beef: "….Rock M Nation readers hold their collective breathe…hoping and wishing ZouDave’s promise of LIVE, ON-THE-SCENE coverage will come to fruition….."

ZouDave: I said just for giggles, ass.

ZouDave: One more to just make it through.....
Can you imagine watching a high school kid, or ANYONE really for that matter, hit 13 of 26 threes in a game?  I remember my dad telling me about that performance.  Apparently on one of the shots Dupay dribbled the ball up the floor, came about 10 feet past mid-court, pulled up and shot...hit nothing but net.  There's unconscious, and there's Teddy Dupay that night.

Michael Atchison: I once saw Clarence Gilbert hit 12 of 17 threes in a game, so, yeah, I can imagine it.

The Beef: "….Rock M Nation readers now shudder at the thought of ZouDave’s giggling ass…."