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Rock M Roundtable!

1 - Beef: say something nice about ghtd36.  Ghtd36: say something nice about Beef.  (And if it's not actually nice, everybody has to run laps.  That worked in junior high basketball practice, anyway.)  Everybody else: say something mean about either or both of them.

2 - On a scale of 1-10, how scared were you about the future of Mark Mangino's program at Kansas before all the allegations came down, and how scared are you of Turner Gill's?  (For Doug, replaced "scared" with "giddy")

3 - So how big a deal is it that Mizzou looks to be putting together a potential Top 15 recruiting class at Mizzou?  They've played above their "talent" level (according to recruiting rankings) for most of Gary Pinkel's tenure (at least the last 4-5 years), but what will happen when more "talent" arrives on campus?  Will the trajectory go that much further upward, or does more talent lead to more egos and more problems?

4 - Picks!


Oklahoma State at Stanford (tonight)
North Carolina at Texas! (Saturday)
Michigan at Kansas (Saturday)
Kansas State at Alabama (Saturday)
Texas Tech at Wichita State (Saturday)


St. Petersburg Bowl: UCF vs Rutgers (Saturday)
Las Vegas Bowl: BYU vs Oregon State (Tuesday)

(You were expecting a Big Ten question, weren't you...ha!)

The Beef: 1 - ghtd36’s "Better Know Your Opponent" always made me laugh…until he stopped doing them…that made me cry

2 - I think, though things are different on different levels, I exist around the same.  I think Gill is a (much) better personality and will put a (MUCH) better face on the program.  However, I do have concerns about his long-term success there given what seemed to be an inability to sustain it at his last position.  Mangino I think had a better staff (I just don’t get the bringing back of TORBUSH!!) and we will see how the recruiting goes (I imagine Gill is better than Mangino, but I had always understood Mangino’s staff to be the stars in recruiting and now many of them are gone I believe)  In the end, I believe it will always been somewhat tough sledding for a kU coach as basketball is always going to be bigger.  I will say I think Gill is a decent hire, but I think Sumlin would have been better.

3 - I think it further solidifies and validates what Coach Pinkel is doing here, and (though it is unfortunate he needs to keep doing it in the face of some) that will always be a good thing.  I trust the coaches to be able to manage the egos (which I think is likely a fair point) and I think 2011 and beyond could get really interesting for this team.  Of course, this year cannot be an outlier also.


Oklahoma State at Stanford (tonight) – um…the smart kids?

North Carolina at Texas! (Saturday) – I will probably watch this just to see how basketball looks in the JerryDome..but I will take NC.  I think they have been far more tested already this season than UT

Michigan at Kansas (Saturday) – kU

Kansas State at Alabama (Saturday) – kSU is doing some things…

Texas Tech at Wichita State (Saturday) - TTech

Don’t we play at some point?


Um…you forgot the first bowl game…Wyoming vs. Fresno State….I expect everyone to complete their picks for the Rock M Nation Bowl Pick ‘Em Contest before Saturday at noon by the way

St. Petersburg Bowl: UCF vs Rutgers (Saturday) -  not giving away my pick

Las Vegas Bowl: BYU vs Oregon State (Tuesday) – not giving away my pick

Doug: 1 - Why does everybody have to run laps?

2 - How about I replace "scared" with "no longer afraid my coach will spontaneously explode on the sideline"?  Because, in that case, it's a 20.  Actually, I'd like to think of myself as a realist and reality has me at about a 5 or 6.  Kansas football is not an easy place to win consistently.  We've all seen it.  Every coach sounds impressive in their introductory press conference.  Now, he just has to go out and prove it on the recruiting trail (KU has a lot of really good player with verbal commitments, but none are signed yet) and on the field.

3 - Don't know.  Don't really want to invest a lot of time coming up with an answer.

4 - Okie State (I guess)
Texas (I'm fairly sure)
Kansas (I'm very sure)
Kansas State (I'm fairly sure)
Wichita State (I'm almost positive)

5 - I'm sorry, I refuse to pick this game unless we refer to it by it's full title:
The St Petersburg Bowl "Presented by Beef 'O' Brady's" : Uh... UCF, why not?
Las Vegas Bowl: BYU players stop at halftime to convert the city, Oregon State wins by default

Bill C.: I didn't forget any -- I was paring things down.  And yes, we play, but ... it's Arkansas-Pine Bluff.  Yeah, yeah...Oral Roberts, etc...blah blah blah.

1 - They stressed me out with their arguing last week.  Okay, not really, but...SCREW THEM BOTH!!!!1!!!!!

2 - It really will come down to recruiting, and based on Gill's press conference, he understands that.  I think he could be successful in the same ways he was at Buffalo -- 8-10 wins in seasons where the stars align (i.e. no Texas or OU) and 4-6 win seasons when the schedule is tough and they're less experienced.  I think KU will have some up and down cycles with him, but that should still be a reasonable level of success for a basketball school, right?  I don't think he's any less of a coach after going 5-7 this year (they were young, waylaid by injuries and, I believe, lost some close games) than I thought last year when they went 8-6 (and were experienced, relatively healthy, and got all the breaks).  Either way, that's a good level of success for Buffalo, and I think he's a decent hire.  If he starts beating out NU/MU/KSU for a bunch of recruits, then I'll adjust his ceiling higher.

3 - I do find it enjoyable that, the same people who said "STAR RATINGS DON'T MATTER!!!!!! LOOK AT DANARIO!!  SPOON!!!  BRAD SMITH!!!!!" are the ones who are seemingly most giddy about the big-time commits, by the way.  As a whole, it has to be considered a good thing.  If the senior leadership stays strong (honestly, that could be an issue next season, as we barely have any seniors!), then these guys should assimilate pretty well into the team's culture.  If they don't, then it will be an interesting test of Pinkel and his staff, but...well, it's hard not to be excited about the thought of breaking in quite a few stud freshmen next year with all the experienced returning starters around them.

4 - OSU (I'm not picking the Pac-10 until they prove they deserve it), Texas, KU, Bama, Tech, Rutgers, Oregon State.

Michael Atchison: 1 - I bet both of those guys look at explosions.

2 - I was scared a 4 with Mangino; the guy was capable, and he had certainly screwed up a season or two around here.  I’ll bump it up to a 5 for Turner Gill, because I’m always afraid of the unknown (and invertebrates).  Had it been Jim Harbaugh, that number would have been substantially higher.  Gill is a reasonable choice, but not a terrifying one.

3 - It’s a pretty substantial deal.  I don’t buy the thinking that better talent necessarily leads to bigger egos.  Pinkel has established his culture here, and the new guys will have to adopt it or they won’t succeed.  It’s not like basketball where one or two players can hold your program hostage.  In football, every player is expendable, and I can’t imagine Pinkel tolerating guys, even really good ones, who don’t fit his mold.


Pokes by 8.
Horns by 4.
Kansas by 18.
Cats by 5.
Tech by 3.


UCF vs Rutgers - no earthly idea.
BYU vs Oregon State - That’s a great game for so early in the season.  BYU by 2.

What is this Big Ten you speak of?

The Beef: So why no Fresno/Wyoming game?  We don’t get to talk about how cool it is for a former offensive coordinator to get his new team to a bowl in his first season?

Bill C.: Fine, fine...

5 - How cool is it that Mizzou's former offensive coordinator got his team to a bowl in his first season?  Do they win their bowl?

Michael Atchison: It is super cool.  No idea if they’ll win their bowl.

Are we really not going to talk about the Big Ten?

Doug: Why?  What's going on with the Big Ten?

Did I miss something?

ghtd36: 1- Beef easily has the most delicious screen name on Rock M Nation.

(And yes, I first wrote "most delicious handle," thought about the obvious That's What She Said implications, and changed it.)

2- I was around a 5 with Mangino. Dude's a strong coach at a historically bad program, so you take all of that with a grain of salt. With Gill, I remain at a 5. Listen, Mr. Gill, I like you. I think you're a terrific coach. But I don't think that you're a significantly better coach than Mark Mangino. And no, your one MAC championship doesn't impress me. Know who else has a MAC championship? J.D. Brookhart, who spent three years before becoming an assistant coach at Pitt selling copiers. So congratulations on reaching the same level as a Xerox salesman. Welcome to the big boy table.

3- I'm not sure that the "FIRE PINKEL!!11!!" crowd is aware of what an enormous leap HCGP has made in recruiting in the past five years or so. The kneejerk crowd wants instantaneous results, while the level-headed ones (specifically most of us here on RMN) recognize what it takes to build a program. Pinkel's doing that, whether or not his detractors want to admit it.

As far as what it means, it's huge. Do more with less, that means that you should do more with even more. What I especially like is that there are a few legit gamechangers in the class, like (pardon my DFW bias) James Franklin and Marcus Murphy. The trajectory can only be higher from here, and if anything, I'm glad Pinkel's in charge to keep the egos in check.

Oklahoma State at Stanford -- The Fightin' Tree.

North Carolina at Texas -- I honestly haven't seen Texas this season, but I'll pick them since the game is in Dallas. Science!

Michigan at Kansas -- Kansas. They're pretty good.

Kansas State at Alabama -- Let's go with Bob Huggins' crew. What? He doesn't coach there anymore? Well, still.

Texas Tech at Wichita State -- Michael Trabtree.


St. Petersburg Bowl: UCF vs Rutgers -- God, what a hideous game. I'll take UCF, but I don't feel good about it.

Las Vegas Bowl: BYU vs Oregon State -- This is what I'm talking about. Give me Oregon State. I mean, Mormons in Las Vegas? Doesn't bode well from a focus standpoint.

ZouDave: 1 - Beefcake sucks, ghtd36 swallows.

2 - I have never been scared of Mark Mangino's program at kansas, while recognizing that he may in fact be the best coach they've ever had.  I'm not at all scared of Turner Gill, and don't understand the slobbering over him that is occurring.  He's a mildly successful coach from a mid-major conference.  He's taking over a program that has once finished as high as 2nd in their division and is losing all of the best offensive talent they've ever had.  The returning players are neither up to par with the ones that are leaving nor were they recruited to play in Gill's system.  This has 3-4 years of rebuilding written all over it, and I don't know if the kansas fans and AD will be that patient.  So I guess my number is 1.

3 - It's a big deal in that the kids notice these things (evidenced by the article on PM this morning about how kids take pride in their rankings).  If we get on the map of having a Top 20 class, after already being on the map of being a place you can win and a place you can get to the NFL, it opens that many more doors (not to mention in theory puts that much more talent into the program).  I am not worried about egos and problems, because I believe our coaches have a system in place that keeps those pretty well in check.  They're recruiting good players and good people, and the leadership we've had over the last few years has been very humble and that gets passed down each year.  To quote Glen Quagmire:  "I like where this is going.  Giggity, giggity, GIG-GI-TY!"

4 - OSU, North Carolina, kansas, KSU, Texas Tech, Rutgers, BYU.

ghtd36: Replace both "Beefcake" and "ghtd36" with "ZouDave's sister", and we're in business.


The Beef: Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand they’re off and running…..

(Two hours later...)

Bill C.: Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand things ground to a halt.

ZouDave: I blame the Big Ten.