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Rock M Roundtable!

1 - It's Colorado Week!  Does CU have enough to justify the top 40 rankings they've received from many publications?

2 - On a scale of 1-10, tell me how entertained you are by Dan Hawkins.

3 - Here's CU's schedule.  Give me a "less than 30 seconds of thought" prediction of their 2009 record:

9/6 - Colorado State
9/11 - at Toledo
9/19 - Wyoming
10/1 - at West Virginia
10/10 - at Texas
10/17 - Kansas
10/24 - at Kansas State
10/31 - Missouri
11/7 - Texas A&M
11/14 - at Iowa State
11/19 - at Oklahoma State
11/27 - Nebraska

4 - Here's your entertainment question for the week: I was listening to a Bill Simmons podcast with a relative of mine (or not), Chris Connelly, and they were discussing whether there has been a truly classic movie made in the '00s yet.  Whereas the '90s produced Pulp Fiction, Goodfellas, Schindler's List, Fargo, A Few Good Men, Shawshank Redemption, and others, the only two movies they could think of in the 2000s that have aged well enough and are re-watchable enough to be considered classics were Almost Famous and maybe The Dark Knight.  That's it.  Connelly said that the good movies have actually been TV shows--Sopranos, The Wire, etc.  Is that true?  Are they forgetting some obviously classic movies?

The Beef: 1 - "Does CU have enough to justify the top 40 rankings they've received from many publications…" is among the reasons I don’t read many publications.  No one deserves any sort of ranking in the pre-season in my opinion, really no matter what it is based on.

2 - Entertained?  Eh…I don’t know…3.5?  Bad football is never entertaining, even if it is happening to a conference opponent.

3 - 9/6 - Colorado State - win
9/11 - at Toledo - win
9/19 – Wyoming - win
10/1 - at West Virginia - loss
10/10 - at Texas - loss
10/17 – Kansas - loss
10/24 - at Kansas State - loss
10/31 – Missouri - loss
11/7 - Texas A&M - win
11/14 - at Iowa State - win
11/19 - at Oklahoma State - loss
11/27 – Nebraska – loss

That adds up to…5-7 and a new coach in 2010.

4 - Yeah…had started to type out an answer, but I suppose as a window as to why I think Twitter is ridiculous in many respects…I just don’t care what they think.  I’ve enjoyed just as many movies from this decade as I have the last, and will likely do so again in the next decade.  Cue the Bob Bummer picture and sound track.

The Boy: 1 - Jeez, it's no fun pulling up the Bob Bummer image if you're begging for it with these answers.  It's funnier as a sneak-attack thing.

Oh who am I's funny anytime.

Anyway, my answer to #1 is clearly a big fat no...haven't hidden what I think about CU.

2 - The on-field product has been a solid 1.5, but the off-field rants/funny pics have been a solid 7.5.  So we'll average that out to a 4.5.

3 - Let's see...

Likely wins: Colorado State, @Toledo, Wyoming
Tossups (generously): Kansas, @K-State, Missouri, Texas A&M, @Iowa State, Nebraska
Likely losses: @WVU, @Texas, @OSU

So they have to split the tossups to make it to 6-6, meaning either they knock off one of KU/MU/NU (they've come relatively close to both KU and NU in the last two years) or sweep KSU/ATM/ISU.

Really, if they're a hair better than I think, then getting KU/MU/NU all at home is a blessing.  If they're decent they could knock off at least one, maybe two of them.  But if they're a hair worse than I think, then suddenly those three games are losses, as are potentially the road trips to Manhattan and Ames.  I'll say 5-7 just for grins.

4 - Really, I think Chris Connelly was right about the TV shows--there have been quite a few classic in that regard, while some of the Oscar winners just haven't aged very well.  Then again, if you love the LOTR trilogy, then there are three classics right there.  And seriously, Bob Bummer...of course what mags say about CU doesn't matter, and of course what Simmons/CC think about movies doesn't matter.  They're called discussion topics.  Sheesh.  *Sniff* I remember the good old days, when my roundtable questions were just answered, not judged...

Wait, those days never existed?  Huh...wonder what I was thinking of then...

The Beef: I’d be more likely to discuss them if I respected either pre-season magazines or polls…or what "sports" people think about movies.  Neither passed that first test this morning

The Boy: Okay then, Mr. Killjoy, here are re-worded questions #1 and #4...jeez...just can't please some people...dude buys a new house and thinks he owns the world or something...I mean, really...  :-)

1 - It's Colorado week!  If someone put a gun to your head and told you to rank CU (1 to 120), around where would you place them?  Because, you know, they'll shoot you if you don't rank Colorado.

4 - I was thinking, totally unprompted, the other day about this decade's movies, and I'm realizing that it appears there aren't as many true "classics" this decade as there were in the 1990s.  Is that because we're not far enough removed from the decade to realize what is classic and what isn't, or has all the good filmmaking moved on to TV shows like Sopranos, The Wire, etc.  Tawlk amongst yourselves.


Oh yeah, and...

5 - How much (meaningless) fun would it be to steal one of KU's national titles?

The Beef: 1 - Bottom half…at least

4 - I think the preferred genre of movies changed in this decade.  Look the top grossing movies of all time…Star Wars trilogy (first one was 1999, but close enough), LOTR, Harry Potter, Pirates of the Caribbean, Spidermans, Transformers.  Movies from that group make up 13 of the 20 top movies of all time.  I realize box office success does not equate to being "classic", but I think the people discussing your original questions just don’t like movies from that genre.   That, and clearly people have really skewed to the blockbuster.  Perhaps it is the continued dumbing down of America in that people are going to the theater to not HAVE to think, but for the escape.  Or maybe they just like bright lights and loud noises.

The Boy: "Bright lights and loud noises" certainly explains the success of Transformers 2...which does, at least, partially poke holes in the "big gross = great movie" kind of idea.  I think it definitely helps define a movie as a "classic" if a ton of people saw it, though, which means a) it will be a while before we know which classics emerge, considering movies like Shawshank really didn't find the life it found until it was on video and on TV every day, and b) The Dark Knight is probably the closest thing to a big-grossing "classic" this decade has produced so far.

And I'll completely admit to being ignorant about the LOTR trilogy.  Haven't seen any of them.  Haven't been motivated to, plus the wife wants to read the books before watching it, meaning we'll watch them some time in 2024.  And in case Mrs. The Boy is reading...sorry, dear, you know it's true.

(And while it's true that movies do appear to have been dumbed down even further in the '00s (that, or I'm just becoming more curmudgeonly), it's certainly encouraging that long-running movie series like LOTR and Harry Potter have found such success, considering they came from books instead of Michael Bay's imagination.)

The Beef: Having not read any of the LOTR or Harry Potter books, but having seen all of the movies, I can say I have enjoyed them.  The LOTR are as visually striking as I can remember, and not necessarily because of the CGI, but because of location and how they were shot.  The awards the last movie won were certainly given as a "trilogy achievement", but I thought many were deserved.

As for Dark Knight, I think that one will be "classic" at some point for a number of reasons.

ZouDave: 1 - God, no!  Colorado is awful with a capital suck.  I have no idea where this lovefest is coming from, but it's unbelievable that a team can be this useless for 2 straight seasons and then, without really changing anything, be the team to beat.  Horrible, horrible team.
2 - Maybe 2 or 3.  I know he's good for a quote or two, but he's not that funny.  He's just weird.  And he's a terrible coach, so that makes it worse.  He's like Gunther Cunningham on a caffeine bender.
3 -
9/6 - Colorado State - W
9/11 - at Toledo - W
9/19 - Wyoming - W
10/1 - at West Virginia - L
10/10 - at Texas - L
10/17 - Kansas - L
10/24 - at Kansas State - L
10/31 - Missouri - L
11/7 - Texas A&M - W
11/14 - at Iowa State - W
11/19 - at Oklahoma State - L
11/27 - Nebraska - L
Hmm, so there's 5-7.  I don't know ANYTHING about Toledo or CSU, though, so I could easily be wrong about those games.  I could also be wrong about the ISU game.  But that's the only team in the North I think CU has any chance of beating.
4 - Well, some of that is hard to handicap because the movies haven't been out long enough.  I will agree with their overall sentiment that movies lately have just been pure shit on the whole, but there have been some good ones.  I guess it depends on what you consider "classics".  Because I will faithfully submit the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy as classic, because those movies are great.  Memento was incredible.  The Departed was awesome.  Slumdog Millionaire, I think, will stand the test of time.  Gladiator seems pretty timeless.  Crash is severely underrated.  And I'm sure there are others.

The Beef: Well done on The Departed, Gladiator and Crash.

ZouDave: I could probably answer this question better from home, where I have access to my DVD collection and can see what movies from this decade I own.
However, I do own all of the ones I mentioned besides Slumdog.
But I will say this:  I do think there were more and better movies in the 1990s than in the last decade.  Just in 1995, there were probably more good to great movies than in all of the 2000s.
Se7en, Crimson Tide, The Usual Suspects, Braveheart, Heat, Casino, Apollo 13, Leaving Las Vegas, Rob could probably even put Babe and Toy Story on this list.  That's just 1 year.

rptgwb: 1. Yes, it's that little black buffalo with the interlocked "CU" over it on the side of their helmets. That's all the justification a lot of the publications need.

2. It's got to be at least an 8. I was watching the "Out of the Blue" documentary about Boise State recently on YouTube (highly recommended, by the way). They showed the '05 BSU-Georgia game in which Jared Zabransky had four INTs and two fumbles in the first half before getting pulled. Erin Andrews went up to Hawk and asked him why he pulled Zabransky, to which he responded, "Did you watch the first half??" Needless to say, I was entertained.

3. 6-6. Screw 30 seconds, I did that in five.

4. Chris Connelly? Is he done doing My Wish segments on Sportscenter?

Michael Atchison: This thing ran off the rails before it even started.  Given that nobody cares what anybody says about anything, is there really any point to this?  Don’t answer.  It’s a rhetorical existential question.

I don’t even care what I say about Colorado, so let’s skip to the end.  I can probably count on my hands the number of films I’ve seen this decade, but I’m surprised to see no love for any number of flicks I’ve neglected to see: No Country for Old Men, There Will Be Blood, Lost in Translation, Little Miss Sunshine (OK, I saw part of that one on TV).  All the cool people seemed to love those.  As for The Dark Knight, give me Iron Man.  I enjoyed The Dark Knight’s first two hours immensely, but hated the preachy, stilted ending. That was some painful, beat-you-over-the-head dialogue.  For trying to break out of the comic book limitations, they sure went back hard to them at the end, including Harvey Dent’s implausible transformation (I was good, something bad happened, now I’m really, really bad).  Iron Man, on the other hand, established what it was at the beginning, stayed true to itself to the end, and was crazy-smart and entertaining all the way through.

At the risk of turning in my man card, I would be remiss not to mention that we’re in a golden age of animation: UP, WALL-E, Ratatouille.  Those are great, great films.

rptgwb: By the way, here's a fun tidbit.

Series of jokes: ENGAGE.

The Beef: I have to be honest…I was exposed to both WALL-E and Ratatouille (The Tailgate Queen has a sister/cousin with four girls under age 9 who we watch from time to time) and have to agree with Atch.  And I can always watch Monsters, Inc for some strange reason.  All are very solid in my estimation.

I saw No Country for Old Men and Little Miss Sunshine, enjoyed the latter more than the former…I just was not huge on the former.  Too…too something…I just don’t know what.

ZouDave: I've only seen No Country for Old Men once, though I DVR'd it the other day so I can watch it again.  I loved it the first time I watched it, but I need to see it again to see if I still like it another time through.

There Will Be Blood was horrible.  I hated that movie.  I kept waiting for something to happen, and nothing ever did.  Good acting CANNOT outweigh no story (I guess in the same way that good talent cannot outweigh bad coaching....Colorado.)

I've still never seen Lost in Translation, and I was only marginally entertained by Little Miss Sunshine.

I will agree with you on the ending of Dark Knight; it was lacking.  But, the first 2 hours more than make up for it.  Basically, as soon as The Joker was taken out of that movie it fell apart.  It makes me scared for what the 3rd one will be like if/when it comes out in 2011 or so, but I'll still see it on opening weekend because I loved Batman Begins and The Dark Knight.

And I will agree with you that Iron Man was a very fun movie from start to finish, I just don't think any part of it was good enough to elevate it to a classic.  The special effects weren't any better than its peers, there were no active performances that put it over the top, and the story, while good, was still formulaic and simple.  I liked it a lot, and will watch it again, but it's not a classic.

Doug: 1 - Absolutely not. I make that statement using what I believe to be the approximate amount of time researching Colorado as did those publications.

2 - When he's on the field, it's a train wreck. When he's behind the microphone, it's a train wreck... with clowns. So a 9.

3 - 5 and 7.

4 - I'd say this decade gave us LOTR (which I count as one of the truly great accomplishments in film making) Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (though if you can tell me where the dream sequences end and where the actual movie begins, more power to you), No Country For Old Men, and, of course, Beef's favorite: Brokeback Moutain.

ZouDave: Oooh, I forgot about Wo Hu Cang Long.  Good call on that one.  I would have sworn that was 1999, but apparently it was very late 2000.  My calendar sucks.
Directed by the great Ang Lee, who also gave us Ride with the Devil.
oh...and Beefback Mountain.

The Boy: I think Lost in Translation has solid "classic" material just because the "cool" people like it, and it will end up seeming better than it was the more time that passes.  I thought it was...fine.  Solid, even.  Nothing great about it, but it was worth watching.

I think There Will Be Blood will be forgotten in a few years.  I haven't seen No Country for Old Men, but it sounds like it might have long-term potential.  I do NOT think Crash has long-term potential.  I liked it a lot the first time I watched it, and I was extremely bored the second time.  Too preachy.

And I can't believe it took that many e-mails to get an in appropriate Brokeback Mountain reference.  We are clearly NOT in mid-season form.

I do completely agree about the Dark Knight ending.  I thought they were setting up Harvey Dent to be the big piece of the next movie.  Instead, they crammed the sequel into the 30-45 minutes at the end, which was disappointing.  He's a good enough actor, and there was decent enough "good-to-bad metamorphosis" potential there to create a decent 120-minute story out of it.  Oh well.  Was still, as a whole, a very good movie...and yeah...dead or not, Heath Ledger just KILLED as the joker.  I had heard enough good things about his performance that I expected to be impressed by him, and he still blew me away unexpectedly.

And as always, the more divergent the question in terms of Mizzou sports, the bigger discussion emerges.  Not that I'm complaining.

The Beef:

: That's an impressively fake poster.

The Beef: That is what I thought as well…

Doug: Even more impressive is, though I had not considered it, Johnny Depp would be perfect as the Joker.

ZouDave: He was the first person that came to mind after Ledger's death for me, if The Joker needs to continue.  But I think they may have left The Joker in a position to not be around in the 3rd movie.

Depp could be The Riddler, though, as this fake poster is implying.

Doug: Shit, I did say the Joker.  I did, in fact, mean the Riddler.

The Beef: I think so too…given how strange he is already and the type of character he played in Willy Wonka (and really Pirates as well to some extent)

ZouDave: He could also step in as The Joker and continue his career of replacing a suddenly dead actor wearing face paint (Brandon Lee, The Crow).

THAT'S a factoid worthy of The Boy's admiration!

Doug: I could see that if we didn't revisit the Joker for several years that he's in Arkham and then comes out looking much thinner than Ledger did in Dark Knight.

ghtd36: Watch me hurry through the first three questions to get to the one interesting one!

1 - Only one player scares me from Colorado, and that's Scott. That said, I'm not sure that offensive line is going to be too scary. Plus, is having a crappy returning quarterback really any better than having a new starter?

2 - 10. I loved him in 48 Hours.

3 - Sure wins over Colorado State, @Toledo (though I really thought about that one), Wyoming, Texas A&M and @ Iowa State. Sure losses @ West Virginia, @ Texas, @ Oklahoma State and Nebraska. Toss-ups are Kansas, @ K-State and Mizzou. So, as good as 8-4, as bad as 5-7, so let's go with 7-5. That three-game stretch of @WVU, @UT and KU is bruuuuuuuutal.

4 - I submit to the panel five movies for consideration of "Classics of the 2000s":

City of God
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon
(remember that one? That movie was beyond badass)
Million Dollar Baby (or perhaps Hundred Dollar Baby)
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind


The Boy: Ooh, Eternal Sunshine.  Good call.  Liked that one quite a bit more than my wife did.

ZouDave: Greg, our tastes in movies are different enough that it may dictate we can't even be friends.  Sorry.

Traffic was HORRID!  That movie was like a visualization of a platitude.  It PRETENDS to be awesome, it PRETENDS to make a point, but really it's just nothing for hours and then it's over and people are afraid to admit they didn't get it.  THERE'S NOTHING TO GET!  IT JUST SUCKS!

Million Dollar Baby was a decent enough movie, but I will never give it high credit because in the end it's just a 2 hour infomercial about euthanasia.  I wanted to see a movie about a female boxer, not a political ad starring some major Hollywood talent.

And Hillary Swank is not hot.

ghtd36: Traffic was good, but I'll admit that of the five I listed, it's the one I liked the least.

Million Dollar Baby, whether you like the political sentiment or not, is one of the most beautifully written, beautifully shot movies of the decade.

And you're right: Hilary Swank is not hot.

ZouDave: eh, Million Dollar Baby was alright.  I'm not going to agree it was beautifully written or shot, but I clearly have a lesser opinion of it.

Let's just agree to agree that you're wrong :-)

ghtd36: Agreed: you're wrong.


Doug: Okay, Hillary is not hot.  Atch is wrong.  How about another question about movies in the 00's?

Which movie released after 2000, when it's on basic cable, have you stopped flipping the channels to watch?

From the 90's, I'd stop and watch Shawshank, PCU, A Few Good Men (although pan-and-scan kills that movie) and a handul of others.

From this decade, I've stopped and watched SWAT (of all things), but really I can't think of much else.  Anyone?

ZouDave: Well, I do typically stop on the Lord of the Rings movies (they're usually on TNT if they're on TV).  Same with Gladiator (and again, it's usually on TNT).  I stop on We Were Soldiers as well (also usually on TNT).  Let's face it, TNT shows great movies.

Is this the part where we get to include Band of Brothers as a classic of the 2000s?  It's not a movie, but it has the same production value.  It's not a TV series, but it might more meet the criteria in the original question where it was asserted that the classics of this decade are TV shows.  But if I find Band of Brothers on the History Channel while I'm channel surfing, I'm there until it's over.  I can't WAIT for The Pacific.

The Boy: Hey, you know what?  TNT knows drama.

ZouDave: yeah, but they also show Titanic a lot.

rptgwb: I thought all great cinema ended with BASEketball in 1998.

Apparently I have some catching up to do.

The Boy: Completely off-topic, but The Boy and I are having a fantastic match of wits on Twitter. The subject is "First Draft Band Names."

My best ones are probably "A Collection of Jacksons" and "Phil Collins and First Corinthians."

The Boy has knocked out a few good ones, too, including "The Band for Which Dave Matthews Is the Lead Singer" and "Pearl Jelly".

Good times. Welcome to Twitter, @billconnelly1.

The Beef: "The Entrance Portals"

"Terminal Bus for Ugly People" (no idea why Death Cab for Cutie popped into my head as I could not possibly name a song of theirs)

"The Heavy Balloons"

ZouDave: 2 Durans

Rifles and Marigolds

Hurry (you know...Rush)

Michael Atchison: "Henley and Frey’s Emporium of Tedium"

ghtd36: Prince and the Polite Sit-In.

Michael Atchison: Neil Young and Mentally Ill Horse.

Minivan Halen


Grandmaster Flash and the Substantially Irritated Five

Doug: Dappled Group

The Boy: My favorite thus far comes from Ken Tremendous:  Tony Tony Tony Tony Tony Tony Tony Tony Tony Tony Tony Tony Tony Tony Tony Tony Tony Tony Tony Tony.

And I'm totally stealing Grandmaster Flash and the Substantially Irritated Five and claiming it as my own.

Michael Atchison: The Velvet Underpants



Something more creative than "the Band"

Knights in Satan’s Step Class

ZouDave: G. Clinton and the House of Funkresentatives

ZouDave: Guys with Exposed Hair

The Beef: The noontime walkers of Dexi

ZouDave: The Oneders

Michael Atchison: Men Without Hits

The Boy: Yeah, I might have to steal The Noontime Walkers of Dexi too.

Doug: The Flaming Gonads

ZouDave: Jason and Jeremy Thompson

The Beef: That one made me laugh

Michael Atchison: Dan, Doug & Dave Doobie

ZouDave: Unoriginal hack.

The Boy: !!!

Michael Atchison: Actually, their first draft name was ???

Michael Atchison: In case I just lost everyone with ???

The Boy: I was lost for a sec, but I'm proud to say that I got the joke just before it was explained.  Go me.

The Beef: Yeah…I had to click on the link, but that should come as a surprise to no one

ZouDave: I bow to your knowledge, Atch.  Bow.

Michael Atchison: As Good as Ezra

ZouDave: They're Fairly Large

Doug: Near-sighted Cantaloupe

The Beef: I vote we end with that one

Doug: Kill-joy.

The Beef: I don’t think it gets better than that one is all I was implying

Doug: Oh, I figured, I just meant you wanted to stop all the fun so you could get home and watch Brokeback Moutain.

ZouDave: NOW it can't get any better.