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Rock M Roundtable

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1 - Which professional team's fan base is the most similar to the Missouri Tigers? (For purposes of clarity, we'll say the Mizzou fanbase as a whole, not specifically football or basketball.)

2 - What is the single coaching trait of CMA’s that HCGP could most use in his program and vice versa?


3 - What are you most excited to see on Friday night during Mizzou’s exhibition against Harris Stowe? What is the thing you are looking for most from the exhibition and early cupcakes before the hoops schedule ramps up?


4 - I just saw that there is apparently going to be a
Skating with the Stars soon.  Awesome.  Which verb should the _____ With the Stars franchise go with next?

The Beef: 1 – I cant say I pay any attention to how pro fan bases are because any team which I really care about is a little over 1,000 miles away on the pro side.  But there is a big difference to me between college and pro fandom, having to do with money and pride and a number of other things.  I think it adds a sometimes healthy, sometimes UNhealthy level of ownership on the college side.  But if you want me to say kU fans are like Cardinal fans, I just wont do it…

2 – Another one which I am sure someone is going to come up with a better answer than I can.  In both cases, both coaches and both programs are well known for their family atmosphere, and both coaches use a certain offensive system and are pretty dedicated and loyal to it.  Both run what appear to be very clean programs with attention to graduation rates.

3 – Seeing as I asked the question, I am looking for how the game flows with the guards.  Tiller and Taylor had such a big part of the last couple of years that this will be a change.  Not only am I interested in seeing how it works with Denmon/Dixon, but also what we can expect from PresseyX2.  I will say I am very curious to see how the loss of Miguel Paul plays into the rotation.  I would also like to see Ratliffe and Kreklow, as I have expectations of both.

4 – I would think some of the Ultra-Premium/Pay cable channels could have a hit on their hands with {expletive-deleted}’ing with the Stars, but I don’t know how that will rate in the flyover states with the 18-49 female demographic.

Michael Atchison: 1. The Charlotte Bobcats.

2. Gary Pinkel could make Blaine Gabbert throw a medicine ball in practice.  Mike Anderson could have his guys go for two a lot.

3. The best thing about exhibitions is it’s the first chance to play with the new toys.  I want to see the new guys, especially Ratliffe and Phil Pressey.

4. Spelunking.

ZouDave: 1 - Hmm...I don't deal with that many other fanbases so I don't know if I'm going to have a meaningful opinion on this one.  I guess in some ways we're like Chiefs fans because we support the team pretty jealously despite a total lack of championships, but we also are our biggest critics.  And we have two major rivals that we just absolutely hate, one which is born of history (jayhawks and Raiders) and one born of the team that we had to be better than to claim a spot at the top of our division (Nebraska and Denver).  We also call a team east of us a rival despite nobody really ever realizing they're not truly a rival (Illini and Rams).

But seriously I have no idea.  I'll read the other responses and see if I agree.  I'm not going to get sucked into calling Cardinals fans beakers, because it just spirals absolutely out of control.

2 - I actually kind of marvel at how similar our coaches really are.  Both are men of integrity and seem dedicated to "doing it the right way".  Both can be accused of running "systems" that draw ire from purists or from our own fans when that particular system appears to have a downfall.  Both recruit well while rarely landing the biggest fish.  Both have the unquestionable loyalty of their players and both seem to be very popular with parents because of their discipline, family atmosphere and commitment to graduating their players.

So if Pinkel is going to take a trait from Anderson, I guess it's making sure you have the right players for your system.  While I don't want Gabbert to be playing QB for anybody else, I'm still of the opinion that this is the wrong offense for his skill set.  It's not that he can't do it, I just think he'd be better in a drop-back style offense with fewer reads, more play-actions and more vertical routes.  If Anderson is going to take a trait from Pinkel, I guess it's...uh....coaching at Mizzou for at least 10 years?  I don't know.

3 - I just want to see our new guys in action.  I want to see Ratliffe out their biting rims and dominating the paint, I want to see Pressey flash some brilliance, I want to see what all the buzz around Kreklow is about, and obviously I want to see the usual suspects back in action again.  It will be fun to watch the on-court dynamic change and adapt to include the new blood.  Denmon/Dixon/English now has to get it done without Tiller/Taylor, so the leadership roles are truly changing hands.  And we'll get to see the brothers from other mothers, Dixon and young Pressey, on the court together and see if anyone can tell them apart (ght I'm looking at you).  Are we going to see Kadeem Green yet?  I heard Anderson say he's about 75%, which is way ahead of where I thought he'd be when the injury occurred just 10 months ago, so I just wonder how much we're going to see him.  And I'm looking forward to seeing the continued growth of Steve Moore.  I love what he brings defensively, so seeing if he has any semblance of offensive presence is going to be fun.

4 - It might as well be knitting since I don't watch any of it.  Maybe we can get Jenna Haze involved and have Sleeping With the Stars.  What, you thought I was going to go with something dirtier than sleeping?  Well, I figured Fisting with the Stars would be in bad form, so I won't say it.

Doug: 1 - Tampa Bay Rays.

2 - I'd like to see Coach Anderson, and actually all basketball coaches, wear a headset. And, not Brad Childress's Bluetooth model, but the full on Motorola version. Pinkel should wear a tie on the sideline occasionally.

3 - I always like to see who for KU steps up to help replace the whatever-massive-percentage-of-scoring the team seems to lose at the end of each previous season. I think this year, it's also important to see how well KU runs set offensive plays, since they're missing a improvising play-maker in Collins.

4 - Death Racing! Winner gets to live!

Bill C.: This begs an obvious question: who are the basketball coaches talking to on the headset?  Jimmy John's?

Doug: I'm fine with that. They'll be able to have the post-game spread ordered with about 5 minutes left in the game. Remember, Jimmy John's, subs so fast, you'll freak.

ZouDave: Probably a NASCAR driver.

Michael Atchison: They’re talking to Tennessee recruits, but they’re asking them not to tell anyone.

The Beef: Maybe they are talking to her?

Doug: Well, who wouldn't?

ZouDave: ok I don't know who that is, but I'll talk to her.  Does it cost me $1.95 per minute?

The Beef: If she costs $1.95 a minute, what does this party line run you?

ZouDave: Can they charge just portions of a minute?  I doubt I'll need the whole thing.

The Beef: Here…the hot tub will cost extra

Doug: Okay, THAT is disturbing.

The Beef: Alright..we will end the Bruce Pearl portion of the Roundtable with something less crazy

ZouDave: I don't know what's going on anymore.

(30 minutes later...)

Michael Atchison: Fresh off of killing Tennessee basketball, Bruce Pearl appears to have killed the Roundtable.

I know no one wants to talk about last weekend’s football game, but are we really not going to talk about last weekend’s football game?  Or this weekend’s football game?

ZouDave: Yeah, that is weird.  We're 7-1, ranked in the Top 15, and we didn't really have a single football-related question.

Football questions:

1 - At what point on Saturday did you know "we are screwed"?

2 - How bad of a loss was it?  Is it something we can recover from?  Is it no big deal?

3 - What are you most worried about going into the Texas Tech game?

4 - We originally called this 4-game stretch the meat of our schedule, but I think we should take Texas Tech off of that because they're not having a good season.  The meat of our schedule was a 3-game stretch.  We came out 2-1.  Is that acceptable to you?  What's your prediction now for our final 4 games and post-season?

The Beef: The 2nd TD from Helu.  I figured the first was a fluke (of sorts…breakdown is probably a better work) and we held them to a FG on the 2nd drive, so I figured we were settling down.  At 17-0, I felt it was over.

I think it is far more of a disappointing loss than a bad loss.  NU is thought of VERY highly across the nation (no discussion needed on whether or not some think it is TOO highly), and we were not favored to win.  Yes, I thought we WOULD win because of the matchups, but credit to NU for out-scheming and straight up out-performing us.  They wanted it far more than we appeared to, which is too bad.  Being that we "won" the last three quarters (purely from a score standpoint), I would say that shows more than anything that we did or have already recovered and I expect us to come out just fine against TTech.

That it is a 7pm game and TTech is in real need of a signature win for the season still at this point.

2-1 in that stretch is very acceptable to me.  I believe this line will be the closest for the rest of the season (maybe ISU, but that may depend more on what they do in the coming weeks), which means we are decent favorites to win our last 4.  And let’s face it, 11-1 is a magical season.  Anything above that (and it may just be an Insight Bowl bid, as strange as that sounds) will be just fine with me.

ghtd36: I'd like to see Roundtabling With The Stars.

Michael Atchison: 1.  The second long TD.  Helu’s first could be rationalized away as one long run.  After Henery’s field goal, it was 10-0.  Not optimal, but not fatal.  After the long pass, it was an avalanche.

2. It was bad the way it unfolded because it was such a domination in the first quarter.  But can they recover?  Sure.  No reason they can’t win this week and right the ship.

3.  The biggest concern is the setting.  Road game against a conference opponent at night with a big TV audience.  It’s a bit like what Oklahoma walked into in Columbia.

4.  It’s better than what I thought they’d do before it started, so yeah it’s acceptable.  I don’t get the idea that some have that it’s not acceptable to lose.  There’s a loser in every game, and every team is filled with Division One athletes who are proud and who are trying hard.  I think the Tigers should be favored in each of the four remaining games.  Logic suggests that they could trip up somewhere.  I’ll say they finish 3-1, but 4-0 is more likely than 2-2.  As for the post-season, let me cop-out and say let’s wait to see the matchup.

Michael Atchison: Looks like Beef and I had virtually identical thoughts at the same time (except I knew that Helu didn’t score Nebraska’s second TD; it only seemed like he scored all of them).

The Beef: Hmmm…I suppose that is true.  Thankfully, I believe I had switched over to 7&7 at that point from beer.

ZouDave: Oh and question for Doug:

1 - Will kansas win a football game the rest of the year?  Not trying to be too much of a jerk about it, but yikes...that's not a good team over there.

ghtd36: I was in Vegas this past weekend (Beef, it's a city in Nevada where you drink and gamble; you've been there, but likely don't remember it). I broke my cardinal rule of gambling: never bet on teams you have a rooting interest in.

I played Mizzou +8 and the Rangers to win.

At least I split!

ZouDave: Well to be fair, the answers here are probably fairly predictable coming from this group but at least there's discussion points now.

Unlike Bill, I will answer my own questions ;-)

1 - When we got down 17-0, I said "that's game".  When we got down 24-0, I will admit I turned the game off.  Now, in my defense, I had literally been up all night working on the OU highlight video (the source video I was working with, while awesome in HD, made it take twice as long to work with) and I was exhausted.  So at that point I said "well, I'm going to go take a nap."  I was in-and-out of sleep over the next 3 hours and did see us come back to make it 31-17 and I watched almost the entire 4th quarter.  First time in a LONG LONG LONG time I actually gave up on a game, but if I hadn't gone to bed at 7:15am I don't think I would have given up.

2 - The loss sucked because of the meanings outside of just losing the game.  It was not a shock to lose that game, though the fashion in which we lost was a bit troublesome.  I like the fact that our players didn't quit, I think that's a sign of maturity and a sign that we're going to be just fine.  We may have been outcoached in Lincoln, but it's not like our coaches aren't doing their jobs.  They just got beaten.  It happens.  Nobody thought we were going undefeated, even if that is the ultimate goal, so this isn't an unexpected result.  And since it's not unexpected, it shouldn't be at all difficult to overcome.

3 - I'm not worried about anything other than beating ourselves somehow.  Sure, this is a similar situation to what Oklahoma walked into in Columbia but it's not really the same.  Missouri wasn't a team desperate for a win in the same manner Tech is, Missouri just owed Oklahoma a good shot to the nuts.  While it's true that we've beaten Tech pretty soundly the last 3 times we've played them, we haven't been the fly in their ointment; we haven't been ruining their seasons.  And, I think OU and Mizzou are far more closely matched than Tech and Mizzou are.  So Tech can have all the amped energy and desire they want, the simple fact that we're just a lot better than they are is going to serve us well.  I guess I'm most afraid of the first 10 minutes of the game.  Survive an early storm from their crowd being hyper, Mizzou wins going away.

4 - It's extremely acceptable.  I predicted us to be 10-2 this season, and I think I'm going to be under.  That's insane.  I felt like I was being too much of a homer picking us at 10-2, but I really just didn't see anyone besides OU or Nebraska getting the better of us.  Nebraska got the better of us.  The last 4 on our schedule aren't all easy, but we're better than they are.  With Tech, we have to survive the hostile crowd.  With KSU, stop Daniel Thomas.  With ISU, stop them from taking another step towards "giant killer".  With kansas, try to score 100.

What's it going to take for us to get into the Cotton Bowl?  Because I really want to go there.  I give us basically a 0.01% chance of a BCS Bowl.  I think the only way we get there is to have Nebraska lose, so we represent the North, and we beat whomever represents the South to win the Big XII Title.  If we don't do that, we are not going to a BCS Bowl.  But at 11-1 and ranked in the Top 10 (we surely would be) I just can't imagine getting relegated to the Alamo or lower.  Could the Gator Bowl take a B12 team this year?  Even then, I still want the Cotton.

The Beef: On the bowls…

The issue here is that it does not look nearly as likely as it has been in previous years that the Big XII will get another team beyond their Champion.  The issue being is that the runner-up is guaranteed to have 2 losses, and with Utah/TCU/Boise (2 of the 3) being as much in play as they are, it could be really tough.  To answer your question, I believe it is that we need NU to lose one more game so we can go to the Big XII Champ game and for OU to beat OSU.  I need OSU to lose because they went to the Cotton Bowl last year (right?) and would not repeat the trip.  If we go and lose the Big XII Champ game, under this scenario, I feel pretty good about us getting the Cotton Bowl (though not guaranteed, because of the attractiveness of NU and the fact that they did beat us and we will have the same number of losses)

But if we win out, NU wins out, and either OU or OSU wins out, I could see us sliding.  Unless the BCS grabs the OU/NU loser, that team goes to the Cotton, and then it is either Alamo or even Insight (as OSU is likely more attractive regionally than we are to the Alamo Bowl because they’ve not been in it recently)  So yes, I can see an 11 win team going to the Insight Bowl to play a Big 10 team

ghtd36: I posted on Facebook last night that I think I find out more about my Facebook friends on election night than any other night.

New question: why are sports awesome while politics are stupid?

The Beef: For my wife and I….we are still trying to figure out how we are impacted on a day to day basis by things political (beyond the goddamn ads and calls) like we are by things sporting.

ZouDave: No shades of gray in sports.  You can like parts of a candidates platform and dislike other parts, but you either like or don't like a team.  You're either for or against a team.

1 or 0.

Binary rules all.

ghtd36: Pro tip: they're all lying to you. Both sides. Equally. And if you think differently, you're naive.

Michael Atchison: Sports are awesome while politics are stupid because most people treat politics like sports, rooting for the team instead of reason.  We already have football for that.

ghtd36: Now, that's not true, I don't think. There are players on my teams that I don't like (See: Carlos Lee, Jason Horton).

ZouDave: But you still support the team no matter what.

ghtd36: True. But damn, did I dislike Carlos Lee.

(Though that was the trade that brought the Rangers one gently used Nelson Cruz).

Bill C.: Atch nailed it.  For many years, I followed politics as or more closely than I did sports ... but until it stops being treated like a sporting event by both the participants and the media, my heart's just not into politics anymore.  That's wrong -- politics should trump everything else -- but it's true.

ghtd36: Is it sad that I'm 24 and already so jaded by the political process that I hope every candidate loses?

ZouDave: Yes it is.  I'm actually in the middle of this same discussion on Tigerboard right now.

Honestly, I think it's become en vogue to treat politics this way.  I'm not saying that's what is happening with you, Greg, because I've met you and know you to be rational and intelligent.  But there are plenty of people in your age group that are neither rational nor intelligent that will treat politics the same way:  they just want everyone to lose.  But they want that because they think it will be funny, or because they've heard some talking head say something and they want to sound smart by agreeing with them, or something like that.

Ill-informed voters are the worst kind of voters, but there's just so damn many of them.  Like I said on Tigerboard, though, Apathy and Abstention are not on the ballot.  One of the candidates IS going to win because it doesn't take a minimum number of votes to win an election.  So not voting is not the answer.

Michael Atchison: Politics shouldn’t trump everything else.  Policy should.  But we don’t honestly talk about policy much.

Another reason sports is better than politics:  Politics is killing this roundtable.

Back on topic.  I caught parts of KU’s and K-State’s hoops exhibitions last night.  Kansas is going to be really good, even without Selby.  You can tell how much Taylor, Reed and Morningstar have played together.  That whole team works great as a unit.

ghtd36: Yes, Atch, I'd like a word with you about a Tweet you had last night:

"All that baseball nonsense has been replaced on my TV by college basketball. It's the most wonderful time of the year."

While I don't disagree with you on the college basketball front...um...baseball rules.

ZouDave: baseball in no way rules.  It's not in the discussion for best sports, it's not in the discussion for worst sports.  It's vanilla.  It's beige.  It's the state of Iowa.  It's the textbook definition of "meh".  It sucks.

Doug: Regarding KU on the hardwood (heh heh), I was able to watch some of the first half thanks to Justin.tv, and I think you're pretty much on, Atch. My biggest concern is the game flow on the offensive end.

I think defensively, KU will be among the best in the country. Most of the guys who are starting now, came through the system to play as hard-charging defenders, now they have a chance to do that and score.

And... did I miss a discussion about politics?

ghtd36: I guess it's not apathy; I really do care what happens to the country. I really, really, really do.

But I've yet to come across a politician who makes me think, "Yeah, he's really going to make government suck less!" It's all the same song, different verse. I understand your point, and I made it a point to become informed about the election (even my local ones), and I totally agree that there are people in my demographic who aren't going to vote because they just think it's super-lame and want Jersey Shore to come back on.

There needs to be a word to describe my feelings towards politics, because it's not apathy. Apathy would imply that I don't care how the country is run. I guess the biggest point is that I don't care who wins, because they're ultimately all the same.

Also, go Rangers.

Bill C.: So in summary, politics suck, baseball sucks but not as much as politics, policy rules, KU basketball is stupid, and Carlos Lee sucks.

ghtd36: Bill wins.

Fatality.

ZouDave: time of death:  11:04am.

Michael Atchison: You’re 24 and can do whatever you want, whenever you want.  I’m 42, have someone clamoring for my attention every minute of the day, and 162 games of stepping out of the batter’s box between every pitch no longer fits into my life.  Plus, my hometown team has spent the past 20 seasons sucking all the enthusiasm out of me.  When you’re young, baseball does rule.  It’s the most perfectly designed and conceived game ever invented, and it lends itself to mythology and poetry.  It probably rules when you’re old, too.  When you’re in the middle, it’s a time-sucking drag.

On the upside, the shuffle just pulled up Desmond Dekker’s "Shanty Town."  An immaculate song.

ghtd36: "You're 24 and can do whatever you want..."

To be fair, those "Bob Stoops pretending to be Jewish so he can blame Tim Tebow for the Middle East crisis" jokes don't write themselves.

Doug: Yeah, but if writing those jokes is really the biggest time drag on your day... then baseball is, in fact, the perfect sport for you.

That, or cricket.

ZouDave: if anyone can explain the scoring system in cricket, they're lying.

HOW IN THE HELL CAN ONE GAME TAKE MULTIPLE DAYS?!!

ghtd36: And what's the deal with people who eat crickets? AW, GROSS.

Doug: ESPN3 has cricket matches to watch. I really thought about watching, because I wanted to know when the commentators had time for a pee break.

These are important things to consider.

ghtd36: ESPN3: best thing to happen to sports since...?

The Beef: ESPN2?

Doug: Outdoor Life... I mean, OLN... I mean, Versus?

ghtd36: Speaking of Versus....for all the talk I've done on this Roundtable on how I'm not interested in politics, this gives me hope for the future of our country.

(An hour later...)

ghtd36: So how is everybody celebrating the 92nd birthday of Bob Feller?

Michael Atchison: By complaining that none of the young guys on the Internet could carry the jocks of the old guys in their prime.

ghtd36: Why would young guys on the Internet want to carry jocks?

Michael Atchison: It's an expression we used back when men were men and when you clocked a pitch with a speeding motorcycle.

ghtd36: What were your thoughts on the Wright Brothers at the time? Did you think they were crazy?

Michael Atchison: Crazy then, crazy now.  If man were meant to fly, God would have given him feathers.

ghtd36: Did you go out there to where they were trying to fly, and shake your fist with one hand and smoke your corn cob pipe with the other?

Michael Atchison: I think this is the point where we start to beat a theme to the point where we lose readers.  But in the interest of completing the conversation, yes.

ghtd36: At least we're trying to save this thing, Atch.

/looking around for RPT

The Beef: So is there where I have the weekly reference to my prostate?  Or did I miss the boat when referencing Bob Feller’s jock?

Michael Atchison: RPT is running around Columbia looking for a Boulevard Amber to fill the gaping hole in his beer wall.

The Beef: I am excited about the Nutcracker Ale being back out for the season.  Have started to see a bit more of the Boulevard here in STL (though Schlafly does do a lovely job on many of their beers as well)

ghtd36: Autumn weather sucks. Autumn beer rules. I think we can call it even.

RPT: RPT is in Boulder trying to figure out if any university in the country can compete with Colorado in the category of "Biggest Discrepancy Between Campus Beauty And Arena Ugliness."

That and avoiding your questions.

ghtd36: SMU waves, then gets the death penalty.

RPT: Give me Moody Coliseum over the Coors Event Center any day of the week.