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Rock M Roundtable!

1 - Both Missouri and Kansas looked better than they had in a while last weekend. (Granted, KU "looked better" in a 30-point loss, but still. Better is better.) Name the most encouraging part of last week's game as it pertains to your team.

2 - Picks! We haven't done picks in a while. The games are below. Give me your picks, and list them in order from "I'm most confident in this pick" to "Yeah, I have no idea.". (I'm not including Texas Tech at Oklahoma because, well, everybody would pick Oklahoma and put them first on the confidence list.)

* Oklahoma State at Missouri

* Kansas State at Kansas
* Texas A&M at Iowa State
* Wisconsin at Michigan State
* Penn State at Northwestern

(This week's overall slate of non-B12 games kind of sucks, eh?)

3 - So it looks increasingly likely that Mizzou might be joining the SEC soon, for better or worse. We know what side of the fence each roundtabler is on at the moment, so I'll ask this: if you are pro-SEC, tell me something that has given you more pause than you expected in the last couple of weeks. If you are pro-staying, tell me something that has made you come around, at least ever so slightly, to liking the move.

4 - Eh, screw it.
Cheers versus Seinfeld. Go.

The Beef: The weather was great last weekend, and is supposed to be nice again this weekend?

1 - The execution of the plays seemed to be a lot better than in week’s past.  I just enjoy the idea that this team, which once again is a young team, got some confidence heading into their toughest home game of the year.  I think this was a nice pay-off for this group considering the road teams we have played/lost to in the past month.  Getting rid of the penalties was also great.

2 - I like the growth MU showed last week, but I just cannot pick them right now against Okie State.  Too many weapons.  I think we score some points, but I think they score more.

kSU over kU
OSU over MU
aTm over ISU
Wisc over MSU
NW over PSU

3-  Call me a cold-hearted bastard, but nothing has given me pause.  With all the reports of teams being invited here and there and where-ever and nowhere, getting a PERMANENT seat at the table (and I view a SEC seat a hell of a lot more permanent than I do a B12 seat, no matter what teams and what size the conference ends up at), is the most important thing to me.

4 - Cheers…never really got into Seinfeld, which some find amazing considering my geographic and religious heritage.

ZouDave: 1 – Mizzou committed to handing the ball to Josey.  Granted, it was easy to stick with it because it worked so damn well from the first time he touched the ball, but it was really nice to see him get over 15 carries before the 4th quarter even started.  And Kendial Lawrence looked good, too.  I am absolutely in love with how balanced our offensive attack is, so now it just becomes a matter of wielding that weaponry properly.  Saturday’s game was (hopefully) a good start.

2 – aTm over ISU
KSU over ku
OSU over Mizzou (sad face)
Wisconsin over MSU
Penn State over NW

That’s right…I took the road team in every game.

3 – Let’s see…something that has given me pause.  That’s a tough one, because I want out of the Big XII.  I don’t like dysfunctional relationships, and that’s what this is.  I don’t particularly care which side of the SEC we end up on, as there are plusses and minuses to both, so nothing there.  I guess if anything it’s more of the finality setting in that we really may not ever play kansas in football again, at least for awhile.  That will be a shame, and I will miss having that game to look forward to.  But I’m holding out hope that the money will be too good for kansas to pass up, and Missouri will jump at the chance to do it even if it  means also scheduling a basketball game that is almost as sure a loss as any we’d ever have.

4 – Oooof.  My favorite sitcom from childhood vs my favorite sitcom from early adulthood.  I knew a guy in high school named Mike Crosser that was also as big a Cheers fan as I was, and we had Geometry together our Soph year (so this would have been 1991 going into 1992).  We use to quiz each other EVERY DAY about Cheers trivia, and we were almost never able to stump the other person.  I feel confident that I saw every single Cheers episode, at least before the last season or two, a minimum of 10 times each.  I knew every damn thing about that show, and I loved it…despite not really getting all of the humor since I was so young when it was at its best.  But Seinfeld…I’ve seen every single Seinfeld well more than 10 times each because of its insane run in syndication over the years.  Some friend of a friend had the Seinfeld Scene-It game and it came out at a gathering one time, and it basically ended up with the entire room vs. me and it still wasn’t close.  I know some will argue that Cheers has aged better than Seinfeld (since most Seinfeld episodes would have taken a dramatically different turn if they’d just had cell phones) but to me the humor in Seinfeld has endured better.  I still laugh at most Seinfeld episodes to this day, and I think more Seinfeld-isms have made their way into the common vernacular than Cheers.

So I gotta go Seinfeld on this one, but you really can’t be wrong unless you make the claim that you didn’t like either show.  In that case…NO SOUP FOR YOU!

ZouDave: Ok, so….yes, BEEF, I do find your lack of Seinfeld affinity odd.  Not so much because of the religion part of it, because really that only came up in a handful of episodes.  It’s really more due to the fact that it just seems like the kind of stuff you’d find funny.  You’re snarky, you enjoy pointing out humor in situations, and you also have no problem making fun of yourself.  That’s what that show was built on.

I feel like I don’t even know you anymore.

The Beef: It was very strange.  Don’t get me wrong, I have certainly seen my share of episodes and I am familiar with much that has moved from that show into the lexicon of pop culture.  But it was never appointment TV for me, whereas Cheers (even as a youngster) was.  The show (Seinfeld) was just never as funny to me as it was to everyone else.

ZouDave: I think my all-time favorite scene from Cheers, although there are plenty in the running, is from an early episode where Coach answers the phone at the bar:

Coach:  Cheers!

(listens to phone)

Coach:  Hold on, I’ll check.  Is there an Ernie Pantuso here?

Sam:  That’s you, Coach.

(into phone)

Coach:  Speaking!

The Beef: The evolution of Ted Danson really is impressive considering his "start" on Cheers (I certainly cannot speak to whether or not he was involved in other shows prior to that) to what he is doing now on "CSI".

ZouDave: Plus he was stellar in Saving Private Ryan

SleepyFloyd7: 1 - O-Line - Dominant. Now we will need to see the same thing from those guys over the next 4 weeks.

2 - A&M over Iowa State
K-State over Kansas
OSU over Mizzou
Wisconsin over Michigan St.
Barbasol over Penn St and NW

3 - If Mizzou is slotted into the SEC East, they will need to find a way to play in Texas. Coach Pinkel & his staff have built strong relationships with HS Coaches in that state that need to be reinforced by playing games (or at lease A game) in Texas. SMU, COME ON DOWN!

4 - Arrested Development.

ghtd36: There's some baseball game today. Not sure if you guys heard about it.

1 - Mizzou's third-down defense continues to be encouraging. 6-of-18 for Iowa State matches a season-best 33.3% for Mizzou's defense, matching Arizona State's 3-for-9 (so, obviously, a better defensive effort in the Iowa State game, considering they had half the number of third downs). Mizzou ranks 30th in the nation in third down defense at 32.9%; I can certainly live with that.

2 - Let's go with A&M over a suddenly scuffling Iowa State squad, Kansas State over Kansas, Mizzou over Oklahoma State, Wisconsin over Michigan State and Northwestern over Penn State.

3 - At the very least, Mizzou's administration has offered some sense that they're being thoughtful about this and taking their time. When they announced that Deaton had the power to explore conference affiliation, I was about halfway concerned that he would sit down for five seconds, take a sip of water, hop back up and yell, "SEC, BITCHES!" He hasn't done that, which is encouraging.

4 - I have to go with Seinfeld because Cheers was before my time. I've watched some episodes of Cheers and I can certainly appreciate its genius, but there's a generational gap there that Seinfeld doesn't have for me.

Bill C.: 1 - Honestly, the best thing to me was just that Mizzou reminded everybody that their ceiling is incredibly high. They made some stupid mistakes along the way, and when quite a few starters left the game, they were still up six touchdowns despite the mistakes. At different times this year, they have run well, passed well, defended the run well and defended the pass well. Facing a schedule that will force them to beat either OSU, Baylor, Texas or A&M to become bowl eligible, that was the reminder I needed.

2 - In order ... KSU > KU, A&M > ISU, PSU > NU, Wiscy > MSU, and, by god, MU > OSU.

3 - It always gives me pause when I realize (often) that this is the riskiest, boldest thing Mizzou athletics will have ever done. It will either be a spectacular success or a disastrous failure. And as D-Day approaches, I start to feel like I do when I'm playing blackjack with real money. On my phone, I know exactly when to hit on 15 or 16, and I know when it's the right play. With real money, I clam up. It's scary hitting on 16 when actual cash (and not points on a game) are involved. With the SEC, in my gut I know it's the right move, but it just gets a little scary. I'll very much get over it.

4 - To me, Cheers vs Seinfeld is kind of like The Who vs Zeppelin, or maybe Pearl Jam vs Nirvana. Like The Who, Cheers never really strayed from the established rock format (even while doing weird projects like Quadraphenia). In the end, they were all sitcom characters doing sitcom things. They didn't redefine the genre, they just thrived in it to a spectacular degree. Meanwhile, Seinfeld attempted in its own little way to redefine what a sitcom could be. It was more married to 1990s culture (and therefore comes across to me as more aged now) and failed more often (which is what happens when you attempt weirder things). I have always, and will always, prefer Cheers, just like I prefer The Who and Pearl Jam. I appreciate risk-taking, in fact I very much encourage it, but in terms of rewatchability and consistent enjoyment (which is what I'm typically looking for in a sitcom), give me Cheers.

(And in terms of weirdness and risk-taking, give me Arrested Development over Seinfeld.)

Bill C.: And I just realized that my broken wordplay attributed Quadrophenia to Cheers instead of The Who (and misspelled it, to boot). Norm Peterson's guitar work on "Love, Reign O'er Me" was spectacular.

ghtd36: Well, you hit a 16 unless the dealer's showing a bust card, in which case I'd stand. Or, best case scenario, dealer's showing a bust card, you've got a soft 16, you double-down and let it ride.

Oh. Sorry.

ZouDave: It also depends on which position you are at the table.  If you’re playing third base and you hit a 16 while the dealer has a 5 showing, you’re going to get lynched by the table.  Make that same play in the first position, it’s not as big a deal.

ghtd36: Very true. The "team" aspect of blackjack is something I think goes overlooked. In the end, if everyone plays by the book, everyone will come out better for it in the end. A rising tide lifts all boats.

D-Sing: A rising tide is only really going to lift all boats if all of the boats are allowed to rise. I don't believe that that tide is going to raise all of the boats if there is excessive weight holding some boats down.

With that being said, that logic apparently can't be applied to Missouri (I gather) for the same reason that we are viewed as the ones with the wandering eye—we're Mizzou.

The Beef: Nothing was ever as funny to me as a blackjack dealer than to watch the drunk college girl sit down to my right and watch everyone to my left get up and leave the table after the 1st hand.  One was able to screw the table right out of the shoot.  I am showing 6 and she has 5-9.  She hits, lands the 7 for 21, but stole the bust card.  I turn a jack and drop a 4.  Rest of the table lost, she won.  Table departs.


ZouDave: That’s the 2nd time I’ve heard that saying this week, about rising tides and boats.  I heard it yesterday, possibly from Herbstreit but definitely on the radio, when someone was talking about if Memphis was added to the Big 12 and what would happen to their football team.  The idea was they would definitely get better, simply because they would have to.

I then wondered why that same logic isn’t being applied by everyone to Missouri, since so many people seem to think we have NO CHANCE of ever doing well in the SEC in football.

ghtd36: I'm like that, Beef. Regardless of how hot a table is, if a dolt sits down to my right, and proves they're a dolt, I'm out of there. I'm not going to sit there and watch some dude hit a 14 with a 6 showing, only to bust out and giftwrap a 4 for the dealer.

D-Sing: Hard 16 or a soft 16?

ZouDave: I saw someone split Kings once, because "I always push when I have 20."  I found a new table after that hand.


Bill C.: Woohoo! And the roundtable comes to life because of an off-hand blackjack mention in the middle of an awful analogy!!!1! I totally planned it.

The Beef: See what happens when you get around to participating?

ZouDave: Yeah…attitude reflects leadership, Captain.  And we know RPT ain’t doing no leading AMIRITE?

ghtd36: Staying on the casino topic, I don't understand the allure of slot machines. It's like grabbing a handful of bills, throw them up in the air, and keep whatever I can catch.

The Beef: Slot machines yes…video poker I will separate out from the argument, only because I have made some very solid money (considering the initial investment) in video poker

ZouDave: My ex-wife once said to me, after doubling my $20 into $40 at a slot machine, "I think I’m really good at slots."

I should have known then.  I just should have known.

Doug: 1 - KU's defense looked better, especially against an Oklahoma team that curb-stomped Texas, at least through the first half. You knew that Oklahoma's far superior talent and experience would soon get over the curb, and that was especially obvious on the, like, five play drive that put Sooners up 17-10 in the first half.

2 - Shouldn't we be picking SEC games instead of Big 10 games?
Oklahoma State, Wisconsin, A&M, Penn State, Kansas State (hey, a guy can dream).

3 - Technically I don't have a dog in this fight. However, there is something to be said for the Big 12 having such a close connection to Kansas City with the tournament and the championship game. I have a hard time believing the SEC will move the championship game from Atlanta, or break their current rotation between Atlanta and Nashville for the basketball tournament.
On an entirely different point, it's disingenuous for any school to claim the instability of the Big 12 concerns them, while they are the ones (whether it be Texas, Oklahoma or Missouri) causing the instability.

4 - Hmmm... I remember Cheers and the Cosby show as the two sitcoms we watched in my house growing up, so those two shows will always hold a special place in my TV education. But, Seinfeld proved that a sitcom could be radically different, that you didn't have to wrap up a storyline with a meaningful solution. I remember one close where Jerry was sitting in a wedding with his date complaining about a trip to the dentist and he says, "Dentists, who needs 'em, right?" Without blinking an eye, his date replies, "Yeah, just like Jews and Blacks." Freeze frame on Jerry's stunned face, somewhere between laughing and crying, as the credits roll.

ghtd36: I feel like there's at least SOME sense of control in video poker. With slot machines, it's pull the lever and WHEEEEEEEEEEEE!

D-Sing: Honestly, slot machines are good mindless fun. I can just sit there, drink and push a button. It removes decision making from the gaming experience.

I don't play table games because it's not fun for me. I worry too much about the decisions I have to make.

Doug: The game I play now is Texas Hold 'em Bonus. Basically, you play your two hold cards and the five community cards against the dealer's hand.

You can make some decent cash if you're smart, but it doesn't fly by like I've found blackjack does.

D-Sing: 1. That the offense was able to make plays and overcome mistakes against a BCS opponent. At least, that's what I gather from the wrap ups and stories I've read. But if they can start to minimize the mistakes and not suffer a death blow from them, it is encouraging.

2. In order from most confident to least:

K-State over Kansas
TAMU over Iowa State
OK State over Missouri
Penn State over Northwestern
Michigan State over Wisconsin

3. The only thing giving me pause are the leaks, as usual. Some folks need to learn to say no comment or man up and attach your name to the comments and deal with the repercussions.

4. It's hard for me to compare because they are so different. I do think that Seinfeld is probably not as timeless, but if they're both on tv right now, I'd probably choose Seinfeld. But it would depend on the episode.

ZouDave: Interesting…it’s like Texas Pai Gow or something.  I’ve never seen that.

How much table talk is allowed?  How is the betting handled?  Does the dealer ever fold?  I’m confused about how this all works.

Doug: People talk and show their cards to each other, since you're all playing against the dealer. The dealer never folds, in fact the dealer doesn't look at their cards until after the river.

The betting works like this: you have to ante the table minimum, say $5, to see your two cards. Then if you want to continue (and you almost always do) it's double the ante, $10, to see the flop, after that you can check through the turn and the river, or drop an additional $5 on both to maximize your winnings.

The first time it took me a couple hands to understand what was going on, but now it's the only game I'll play at a casino.

ZouDave: That sounds awesome.  I will have to remember to look for that the next time I’m at a casino.

ghtd36: When I was at Mizzou, my dad made the drive to Columbia three times (I think). It's a 10-hour drive from Dallas.

And every time, I'd get a call about 9 hours and 30 minutes into the drive, saying that he was falling asleep and couldn't make it all the way in one day. That he'd be there for breakfast tomorrow, don't worry, he's going to pull over and grab a hotel. Those last 30 minutes, you know, they're hell.

The Beef: Ah yes…my former employer.

And in defense of Mr. Tepper…those last 30 minutes can be tough.  Now, for me it was tough after working 8am-5pm Wed at Mizzou Credit Union, then 8pm to about 3am at the Casino…repeat that on Thursday…and then again on Friday, but until 4am that time.  Then get up Saturday around 9am for an all-day tailgate and 6pm game…then back to the Casino by midnight for the graveyard.  That drive at 8am on Sunday often took me close to an hour…and usually featured 3-4 stops…in 25 miles

D-Sing: Ah, Isle of Capri. The Boonville Casino that my Casino Management teacher told us about and took I think four years to build or so? When did it open, Beef?

The Beef: Oh gosh…I worked there in 2004 and it had been open for a few years at that point.  I suppose you could tell me the place is 10-12 years old and I would not be surprised

ZouDave: That place is 10-12 years old.

The Beef: Huh…I guess I am not surprised


Michael Atchison: It looks like you’re doing fine without me, but I’ll chime in anyway.

1. I didn’t see it, so I’m not really qualified, but the way that several guys on offense made plays is encouraging. In order to be successful right now, I think Franklin needs help, and needs it from lots of people. If Egnew, Moe, Josey, Harrisson, Kemp and Washington can all pitch in, they can be hard to defend.

2. OSU by 8, KSU by 17, A&M by 20, Wisconsin by 10, PSU by 0.5.

3. Skip. I’m too tired of the topic to make any contribution that others won’t find irritating.

4. I think there was more genius to Seinfeld, but I think I probably enjoyed Cheers more. One of the amazing things about Cheers is that there were two major cast changes (Woody replacing Coach, Rebecca replacing Diane) and neither derailed the show; that’s especially impressive given that one of those changes reworked the show’s central relationship.

And yes, Bill, The Who never strayed from the established rock format, as long as you don’t count The Who Sell Out, Tommy or, as you mentioned, Quadrophenia. And how many times do I have to say it? Nirvana, Nirvana, NIRVANA.

(An hour later...)

Michael Atchison: OK, I see how this is going to go. Blackjack, blackjack, blackjack.

Actually, I never play blackjack, but I’m awesome at Dogs Playing Poker on my phone.

ghtd36: That's the Atch-est thing ever said.

SleepyFloyd7: "Grumpy indemnity Stipanovich perspective lawyer Kansas City Bob Vanatta."
 - Atch

Michael Atchison: Nick Lowe just got added to the bill for the Wilco show in KC in December. There’s nothing you guys can say to hurt me.

ghtd36: #HipsterAtchison

Doug: #oxymoron

Michael Atchison: Nick Lowe is in his sixties. I’m definitely not a hipster.

Doug: That's exactly what a hipster would say.

ghtd36: I'd rather see Rangers reliever Mark Lowe in concert.

The Beef: While we are on music…I heard a song today that caused me to have to look up the lyrics because I believed at the time I could not possibly be understanding exactly what I was hearing.  Needless to say, the 80’s must have been a crazier time than I remember:

Fab Five Freddie told me everybody's fly
DJ's spinning I said my, my
Flash is fast, Flash is cool
Francois sais pas, Flashe no deux
And you don't stop, sure shot
Go out to the parking lot
And you get in your car and you drive real far
And you drive all night and then you see a light
And it comes right down and lands on the ground
And out comes a man from Mars
And you try to run but he's got a gun
And he shoots you dead and he eats your head
And then you're in the man from Mars
You go out at night, eatin' cars
You eat Cadillacs, Lincolns too
Mercuries and Subarus
And you don't stop, you keep on eatin' cars
Then, when there's no more cars
You go out at night and eat up bars where the people meet
Face to face, dance cheek to cheek
One to one, man to man
Dance toe to toe
Don't move too slow, 'cause the man from Mars
Is through with cars, he's eatin' bars
Yeah, wall to wall, door to door, hall to hall
He's gonna eat 'em all
Rapture, be pure
Take a tour, through the sewer
Don't strain your brain, paint a train
You'll be singin' in the rain
I said don't stop, do punk rock

ZouDave: Lol, yeah that song is in Rock Band…when it got to that part of the song I was basically frozen.  It was like reading aloud a beginner’s typing test.

Add add fad fad jak jak sad sad fall fall jak jak and you don’t stop to the add fad you just keep on jaking sad then you fall add fad las kas sas dad and sad all falls jak dad sad fall.

(30 minutes later...)

ZouDave: And I was hoping to be able to use this at some point today, but it hasn’t come up yet and I’m about to disappear for the next 2 hours so…